DS9 3x17 Visionary
- Thread starter Vulture
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What I find funny is that we frequently hear Harry Kim is not really 'our' Harry Kim because he came from an alternate universe, but we rarely hear this about O'Brien - while in this case as well, it's not 'our' O'Brien that survives but a different version (i.e. the version that came a few hours from the future). 'Alternate' Harry Kim's point of departure in the timeline might only have been a few hours as well.
But I've always enjoyed the episode.
But I've always enjoyed the episode.
It was one of the ridiculous episode from the 3rd season, which was slowly leaning towards "More of the same" fan service which has plagued Star Trek from leaving a lot of the old stuff behind, which really doesn't make any sense. The episode thinks it can get away with their story logic but for me the conclusion doesn't matter because exposing the Romulans about their plot wouldn't prevent them from doing it. They'll find other means in accomplishing it... meh, this episode just didn't do anything for me.
This episode became contradictory to what came later. This episode: "We Romulans think the Dominion is the biggest threat to the Alpha Quadrant! So we'll destroy the wormhole and DS9!" Later episodes: "We like the Dominion so much that we're going to give them a free hand in the Alpha Quadrant!"
Another problem with this episode was the fact that neither Dax nor anyone else bothered to consider the possibility that the orbiting anomaly could be a cloaked ship - especially when Romulan hijinks were no doubt afoot. How many random space anomalies establish a steady orbit around a space station?
Otherwise a decent episode.
Another problem with this episode was the fact that neither Dax nor anyone else bothered to consider the possibility that the orbiting anomaly could be a cloaked ship - especially when Romulan hijinks were no doubt afoot. How many random space anomalies establish a steady orbit around a space station?
Otherwise a decent episode.
Sisko would have bawled Harry out big time the first time he screwed up, told him that sort of thing might be okay on Voyager but wasn't gonna fly on DS9. Then Harry would have straightened up and made lieutenant within a year.
O'Brien would have been miserable on Voyager if Keiko and Molly weren't with him, and they wouldn't have been given the mission Voyager was on during "Caretaker". O'Brien would have found his own wormhole taking him back to the Alpha Quadrant in season 1 of Voyager.
O'brien might have rigged an entirely new drive within a year, simply because he couldn't bear the thought of molly growing up without him.
Have O'Brien on VOYAGER? At least that would explain why the ship always looked pristine, even directly after episodes like "DEADLOCK".
Regarding the Romulans, I don't think there's any continuity issue with their view of the Dominion. Keep in mind that the events here happened before the Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar fleet went on that failed mission. This episode established that this is how the Romulans got the location of the Founders' homeworld.
After the trap destroyed that fleet, the Romulans probably took a step back in surprise at how it crippled the Tal Shiar. It probably gave them pause about considering another attack and why they likely signed the non-aggression pact in "CALL TO ARMS" over 2 years later. Even after those Romulan ships arrived in solidarity in "BY INFERNO'S LIGHT", once they discovered that the Dominion very nearly destroyed the entire Bajoran system, which would have destroyed a lot of Federation and Klingon ships as well as the ones they sent, without the Dominion firing a single shot... the Romulan senate probably thought, "Okay, guys. The Dominion crippled our best intelligence agency, almost destroyed a star system, and now has a foothold in the AQ with the Cardassians... without any losses to them. We need to be on their good side."
Say what you will about the Romulans... they aren't stupid.
Regarding the Romulans, I don't think there's any continuity issue with their view of the Dominion. Keep in mind that the events here happened before the Obsidian Order/Tal Shiar fleet went on that failed mission. This episode established that this is how the Romulans got the location of the Founders' homeworld.
After the trap destroyed that fleet, the Romulans probably took a step back in surprise at how it crippled the Tal Shiar. It probably gave them pause about considering another attack and why they likely signed the non-aggression pact in "CALL TO ARMS" over 2 years later. Even after those Romulan ships arrived in solidarity in "BY INFERNO'S LIGHT", once they discovered that the Dominion very nearly destroyed the entire Bajoran system, which would have destroyed a lot of Federation and Klingon ships as well as the ones they sent, without the Dominion firing a single shot... the Romulan senate probably thought, "Okay, guys. The Dominion crippled our best intelligence agency, almost destroyed a star system, and now has a foothold in the AQ with the Cardassians... without any losses to them. We need to be on their good side."
Say what you will about the Romulans... they aren't stupid.
I love Visionary. I think of all the Torture O'Brian episodes, Visionary was my favorite because of the visual effects and it felt like a TNG episode. For someone who liked TNG and DS9 equally, that's not a bad thing.
It’s easy to be on board for a war when all you have to do is close a wormhole then when you have to commit millions of lives.
Good, fun episode with sone logical problems.
Good, fun episode with sone logical problems.
Visionary played like a Star Trek Novel. I mean that in a good way. In later seasons, it seems they mentioned the Romulans less and less in reference to the cloaking device. I wonder if this incident loosened things up regarding its more liberal use on the Defeint.
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Kim. on the other hand, probably would have whined the entire Dominion War Arc: why can't we simply make peace with the Dominion, I just want to go home to my parents and to Libby!
But if Kim were on DS9 when the Breen attacked Earth, that could have been interesting to see his reaction if his parents or Libby were killed.
We would have gotten to TimelessKim much faster that way, and he was far more entertaining than EternalEnsignKim in any case!
This is one if my favorite time travel episodes, because of how directly the characters address and interact with the phenomenon.
I think most shows would've wasted a chunk of the episode on O'Brien trying to convince people he's not crazy, and coincidentally no one else seeing his counterparts, with whom he'd take forever to finally start interacting with. I love that here, Quark sees the very first extra-O'Brien at the same time O'Brien does, and no one wastes time diving right into what's going on. I like the two O'Briens' direct interactions, and comments on the situation.
Now I want to rewatch this episode.
I think most shows would've wasted a chunk of the episode on O'Brien trying to convince people he's not crazy, and coincidentally no one else seeing his counterparts, with whom he'd take forever to finally start interacting with. I love that here, Quark sees the very first extra-O'Brien at the same time O'Brien does, and no one wastes time diving right into what's going on. I like the two O'Briens' direct interactions, and comments on the situation.
Now I want to rewatch this episode.
^ I bet Quark only thought 'I should be asking entrance fees, I could've charged O' Brien twice!' at that moment.
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