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Drydock, TOS style...thoughts?

*sigh* my post didn't go through... Have to type it again.
roi3w0u.jpg

I love the direct image above. It shows the use of the MJs original concept that the nacelles were the engines (power pods) and the versatility of that concept.

And I appreciate the implied stength in the modular movable yet delicate looking space dock above. Of course that's the huge difference in this structure compared to the larger enclosed stations that are arguably permanent fixtures in a given location.

What a great picture! I absolutely love this one.
 
I'd really love to see those concepts by Jason "Vector" Lee! I tried a Google search, but evidently, my search parameters were not the best choices as I found nothing matching the descriptive text.

I figured someone would eventually show those designs I saw in the earlier issues of StarLog, when the production still wavered between television and theatrical. They're interesting, there's no denying that. But those are structures devloped in the 1970s, post "Star Wars", when productions started leaning towards the motif of "hyper" detail. Somehow, I just don't think Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang would have thought in those terms in 1967 to 68. At that point, even "2001: A Space Odyssey" was yet to be released (April 68'), serving as the great paradigm changer. The philosophy of the time was still "smooth, sleek surfaces" with minimal touches of detail. Also, let's remember whatever was built would have likely been shot using a blue screen matte separation process. Spindly details like thin "cables" supporting light arrays or the "zig zagging" tubes of truss beams would likely have vanished during processing (given the ship's rather substantial engine pylons sometimes disappeared). "Lost in Space" actually had the advantage here. Because most elements were shot "in camera" against a background painted to look like a starry expanse, fine details could be depicted. In fact, it was a challenge to hide the supporting wires. This "danger" of possibly losing foreground elements would have, sadly, ruled out the idea of using "sprues" from model kits as scaffolding, as expediate and clever that idea really is. Of course, that's assuming the production would have adhered to using blue screen optical printing techniques. If they chose to make an exception specifically because of the intricate detail, the the whole ball game changes.

I'm just thinking like this, "Matt? Gene here. Look, we have a story coming up that depicts the ship getting repaired over the course of the episode, not just a fleeting scene that can be written off with a line or two of dialog. If possible, I want to showcase a kind of drydock...in space. Yeah, it'll be expensive, but I think we can allocate the funds. Once we build and shoot it, we'll have that footage at our disposal for later episodes, kinda' like we did with the space station drowning in furballs. Say, there you go! Is that model still around? Maybe you can salvage parts from it for this 'spacedock'. It'll provide a bit of visual continuity, but even better, it'll save us some money. Oh, can you make it all spindly with open girders and criss-cross beams? What's that? They'll likely vanish during optical printing? Oh, I forgot about that. Well, if you have to make the frame with thicker parts to avoid that, that kinda' makes sense. Say, can't we just shoot it hanging from wires in front of a star speckled backdrop? That way all the fiddly details will photograph. Hmm? Yeah, I guess that would limit us, no chance to depict the same structure in orbit around a planet, suggesting a different complex. Right, Matt. I'll trust your judgement. Can you bring some prelimary drawings by Friday? I'd like to review them before we commit. Okay, see you Friday. Bye."

Okay, maybe it wouldn't be Gene Roddenberry himself calling Matt Jefferies direct, but it should give you an idea of the circumstances I'm imagining.

Sincerely,

Bill
 
^^^ Exactly. Their bluescreen back then was prone to dropouts due to film shrinkage and general matte alignment issues. Example: the thin rods connecting the "antennae" (or whatever they are) above and below the aft hull pylons on the Botany Bay tended to disappear. You wouldn't want half the drydock to vanish.

If I were the Line Producer back then I'd have just suggested either a painting (the ship would be stationary, so there'd be no need to move around it), or a McKinley type dock which went above the ship (basically inverting an earthbound drydock) because anything enclosing the ship too tightly might make it difficult to light the ship well (they couldn't do low light like TMP with long exposures if anything had to move since they didn't have motion control).
 
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I'd really love to see those concepts by Jason "Vector" Lee! I tried a Google search, but evidently, my search parameters were not the best choices as I found nothing matching the descriptive text.

*snip*

Sincerely,

Bill

I did a search, as well, and found nothing. The original threads were probably pruned; they may be more than 10 years old.

I did find one pic of Vektor's drydock (containing his USS Constitution model), but I'm not comfortable posting it without his permission, so will PM him to see if he would mind.

Interestingly (to me at least), it confirmed my recollection that he ended up with a cylindrical shaped drydock structure with very "substantial" elements, that may have helped address the blue screen/matte issues mentioned above. And, it does not include the K-7 elements I recall. I distinctly remember someone's drydock having a sort of "command module" constructed of an element reminiscent of the K-7 modules, but this could have been a WIP element that did not make it to the final (or the version I found on my HDD may not be the final); or it could be someone else's design altogether.

In any event, if/when I hear back from Vektor and receive his okay, I'll post the pic.
 
Glad to hear I'm not alone with the McKinley Station-type dock arrangement.

Another concept: a very large, somewhat roughly spherical or cubical-shaped space station, with a few entrances and exits, sort of like a distorted hornet's nest. each such space station can house a few starships in controlled box-like caves. A station like this would be self-sufficient, with work crews, workshops, crew quarters, cargo receiving/processing sections, etc. Think of it as a cross between FJ's Starfleet HQ and K-7.
 
One thing to consider: The designers for TOS consulted a lot of artwork from the period, things like SF-magazine covers and speculative spaceship designs from science articles. So a good way to approach the question of how Jefferies might've designed a drydock in TOS would be to research depictions of such facilities in the artwork of 1950s or 1960s SF or science magazines. I tried looking for sites that feature space art from the period; here's one that might be worth studying:

http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/12/category-futurism.html

Except in my partial survey, I don't really find any images of orbital docks. Anything showing a ship being constructed just shows it in open space, near or adjacent to a space station.
 
By request, here are all of the renderings I produced for my TOS Drydock project. Unfortunately, like so many others it was never completely finished. It did, however, include the K-7 inspired modules in all its iterations.

drydock-bj_01.jpg

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drydock-bj_03.jpg

TOS-Drydock_01.jpg

TOS-Drydock_02.jpg

TOS-Drydock_03.jpg

TOS-Drydock_04.jpg

TOS-Drydock_05.jpg

TOS-Drydock_06.jpg

TOS-Drydock_07.jpg

TOS-Drydock_08.jpg

TOS-Drydock_09.jpg

TOS-Drydock_10.jpg

TOS-Drydock_11.jpg

TOS-Drydock_12.jpg

TOS-Drydock_13.jpg

TOS-Drydock_14.jpg

TOS-Drydock_15.jpg

TOS-Drydock_16.jpg

TOS-Drydock_17.jpg

TOS-Drydock_18.jpg

TOS-Drydock_19.jpg

TOS-Drydock_20.jpg

TOS-Drydock_21.jpg

TOS-Drydock_22.jpg

TOS-Drydock_23.jpg
 
Thank you, Vektor! Those are beautiful (as always). Also, it's nice to know I was not imagining things. Unfortunately (and for no reason I can explain), the only pic I have on my HDD is that 19th image you posted: the close up angle from the stern of the ship that has the K-7 modules cropped out; but I was certain they were part of the design.
 
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Vektor, thank you for sharing these conceptual designs with us!

You know how some things don't match the anticipation built around them when finally revealed? Well, these DO!

Hmm, "rings", I never considered "rings", but I love that idea! And the K-7 type modules are to the side. For some reason, I kept picturing one at the top of the array, but to the side just works better!

Yes! I can see something like these as something Matt Jefferies might have designed in 1967 to 68.

If there were a prize for this thread, Vektor has won it!

Sincerely,

Bill
 
There was actually a method to the rings concept. I was envisioning cranes and manipulator arms that could track along the rings or the longitudinal rails to any position surrounding the ship being built or maintained.
 
It also meshes well with most Starfleet designs, which seem to lean towards more rotund, tubular designs. I mean, yes, there were designs which had more sharp angles, namely the shuttlecraft, and the transports hailing from the Animated Series, but most Starfleet designs seemed to usually use more round elements, if possible.
 
I like that one a lot--but it looks Lost Years to me.

The Spartan drydock looks like it might have come from the proposed 1969 movie--and I think it fits well.

The one with hoops?

TOS-Drydock_04.jpg



I keep thinking subspace catapault with that one--something with coild set up along space lanes sort of like Stargate Atlantis midway station to the Pegasus galaxy.

That would explain how a ship can go to Vulcan faster with the same warp factor as opposed to travelling in free space.
 
You'll have to forgive me if I disagree.

Vector's spartan, or simplistic design works better for a TOS-era drydock.

Madman's Prime Alternative looks more like a Phase II-era and above to me.
 
Well, lessee...

There's Vance's G-class Station based on Masao's version.

There's also Vance's J-class Station based on Masao's version.

Finally John Payne did an interesting TOS-style top view Pegasus base.

They all appear to be big enough and possess visual cues to be a TOS-style spacedock.

Edit - damn. In re-reading the thread title, I misread drydock for spacedock. Oops...sorry 'bout that... :whistle:
 
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