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Driving question.

Trekker4747

Boldly going...
Premium Member
DiagramIntersect.jpg


Okay, here's the set-up. Fairly standard four-way intersection only a train crossing blocks one of the routes through it, when the crossing is being used the North/South lanes get a standing green light for the duration of the train's use of the crossing, the West/East route gets a standing red-light.

Car 1 is sitting at the intersection, in park, waiting for the train to clear the crossing so he can continue forward.

Car 2 is behind Car 1 but he wants to turn right onto the N/S street. The train has pretty much just started through the crossing so it'll be a few minutes for the way to be clear.

Obviously for our two cars no on-coming traffic is possible and there are no other cars in in the intersection worth noting. Would it be acceptable for Car 2 to go around Car 1 into the left-turn lane of the W/E street and then turn right effectively passing Car 1 and making a wide right turn from that lane?

Now, the legality of this is dubious and not likely to please any police officers who may see it but would it be an acceptable thing to do in terms of the "rules of the road."
 
My feeling is...don't be such an impatient prick, car number 2. In a hurry to get nowhere...
 
... or to get home, get to work, get to a Dr's Appointment... You know, just in defense of him.

;)
 
The cops would call that "improper lane usage" here in Illinois, assuming they see it.

Stuff like that happens quite often around here, lots of traffic and all and people can't possibly wait.

Acceptable & legal are really the same thing here.
 
Absolutely not. It's both illegal and unacceptable to do by the "rules of the road."

There's many reasons why. The most obvious one is that there could be a pedestrian crossing the road in front of car 1 that car 2 couldn't see.

If car 2 is in that much of a hurry, they could pass into the left turn lane, turn left, then turn around in a parking lot or something.
 
Illegal and not cool. Turn left and find a place to turn around legally if you're in that much of a hurry.
 
Most likely illegal and also seriously lacking in patience. But I see people here in Atlanta doing stuff like that (or worse) all the time.

I think we spend so much time sitting in gridlock that half the drivers on the road are just one stupid situation away from road rage.
 
^^ There's not going to be a way to turn left either, till the train passes & the E/W gets a green light.

He's just gonna have to wait, unless there's a store entrance or something to the left.
 
^Does that apply to parked cars? I'm not sure if the OP meant the car #1 was actually parked. I've put the car in park and turned off the engine at train stops where it often takes a while for a train to pass by.
 
Yeah, I missed the "standing green light" for the N/S traffic, too. That's dumb. People should be able to make left turns. Reminds me of intersections with left turns lanes that don't have green lights for those lanes (turn when traffic allows) but rather only green arrows. Those drive me nuts, too.

To the excuse that perhaps car 2 is late for a meeting, or doctor appointment, or some other such thing...what if they were going straight? They'd have to wait then. That's why you leave early for such things.
 
There's a very similar intersection (only worse) around here, the lights do the same thing when there's a train.
 
^Does that apply to parked cars? I'm not sure if the OP meant the car #1 was actually parked. I've put the car in park and turned off the engine at train stops where it often takes a while for a train to pass by.

"Car 1" isn't necessarily "parked" as it's not in a park-space it's just in park by the drive so they don't have to rest their foot on the brake while the train crosses, the car is otherwise running so it's more "standing" than it is parked.

I was Car 1 in this situation recently and the guy behind me did it and it didn't really bother me, I'd probably do the same thing in the situation as there's no need for "Car 2" to wait to make a right-turn because of a train, there's plenty of times this crossing gets 10-12 cars long down a 2-lane street through a residential/light commercial area so it can create a traffic problem if Car 1 is stopped there and other cars further back want to turn right.

I don't doubt that the practice would be illegal but the question is more if it is acceptable on the "rules of the road" which can be different than the "laws of the road." If you were Car 2 would you do this (you've got your destination and why be delayed due to a poorly designed intersection (with no right turn lane) and a train which is stalled the light)? If you were Car 1 would you be upset by someone doing this (it's a practice that doesn't impact your driving, so what skin is it off your ass?)

Trains in the crossing move very slowly most of the time due to a variety of reasons, chief among them probably the spur to an industrial/unloading complex just a few more miles down the tracks towards the "North.") So long as when Car 2 does this maneuver he insures he's not going to hit pedestrians or other traffic -he doesn't just speed around he pulls next to Car 1, stops, checks for a clear path and then makes the turn) I don't see how it could be dangerous to anyone and it's certainly doesn't effect anyone's drive. I'll even admit to doing it myself once or twice as I can turn right, make a couple of more turns a little further down the road and be on the other side of the train before it finishes crossing (underpass a little further "North.")

It's really a jacked-up crossing and intersection for a variety of reasons, on the other side of tracks (not depicted in the diagram) it's actually a Y-Intersection.

Also fascinating about this street, a little further down the road there's a traffic light controlling the entrance to a grade-school, right now it's on a flashing-yellow with a sign on it saying that the light is being studied for removal. I'm guessing cameras or sensors are seeing if the light is needed there and if it's absence will have an impact on traffic in the area. What's so interesting about this?

It's Summer. School isn't in session. The light, as noted, controls the driveway to the school which obviously has a lot of traffic in an out of it as parents and buses drop-off and pick-up students, I'm guessing doing this study for removal in the Summer isn't going to have a valid data.
 
No, I wouldn't do it. You shouldn't either. The intersection isn't "poorly designed" for not having a right-turn-only lane. There's no room for one (you would have to have three lanes minimum for a right-turn-only and left-turn-only lane).

There could very easily be a pedestrian in front of car 1 that is obscured from view. There could also be a car coming up to the intersection intent on entering the left-turn-only lane. Neither the pedestrian nor the oncoming car would anticipate a person "going around" in the manner you describe from a stopped position. That's the sort of thing that creates accidents.
 
Alright, it is risky and usually illegal. However, I've been at intersections where there is a railroad crossing that often have trains take 20 minutes or more to clear the intersection.
 
No, I wouldn't do it. You shouldn't either. The intersection isn't "poorly designed" for not having a right-turn-only lane. There's no room for one (you would have to have three lanes minimum for a right-turn-only and left-turn-only lane).

There could very easily be a pedestrian in front of car 1 that is obscured from view. There could also be a car coming up to the intersection intent on entering the left-turn-only lane. Neither the pedestrian nor the oncoming car would anticipate a person "going around" in the manner you describe from a stopped position. That's the sort of thing that creates accidents.

Any accident can be avoided by the passing driver being alert, I'm not talking about just whipping around at street speed, I'm talking about pulling up next to the car, looking around, waiting for the path to be clear and then moving at a slow, safe, speed as you would for any other turn on a 2-lane street and not moving at an insane speed that'd cause a danger.
 
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