Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water

[Mr Awe]

I'm not sure what people were expecting? It is like the Tesselecta again, but only because fans feel somehow shortchanged because the twist makes sense? The essence of a good twist is that it should make sense.

Moffat's always been about smoke and mirrors IMO, that's what I like about him most of the time (that and the snazzy dialogue)

Yet again he proves, clever or not, that he's a great writer (IMO obviously)

I agree with this. It would have to be out of left field to be truly a surprise which would still upset people (however were we supposed to guess that?!)

I think if there is a mistake it was the attempt to make Missy's identity a season long mystery to begin with. The solution to such a long mystery is bound to be a let down. It can't possibly live up to the hype.

All in all, I'm fine with Missy being the Master. I hope we get an interesting Moffaty take on the Master. I also think we still have some upcoming revelations, big revelations. I don't know what they are but I don't think things are simple as they look.

Mr Awe

 

[C_Miller]

Was there a Malcolm Tucker reference in this one? When he showed Doctor Chang the psychic paper, it referenced that he was from the government. Doctor Chang then asked why there was so much swearing. Sound's like everyone's favorite Spin Doctor.

 

[Count Zero]

I can't believe all of you who said Missy was the Master were actually right!

On the other hand, with the dream-state patches introduced at the start this may all turn out to be a bad dream.

 

[Saul]

"you left me behind" and "I have your hearts"

I'm not entirely buying that she is the Master. I kept thinking it might be Jenny the Doctor's daughter who he left behind and has his hearts and at the beginning of the episode we see a post it note with Jenny written on it.

Or maybe it really is the Master.

Great opening to the episode. I thought we would see Clara and the Doctor come head to head finally. But the rest of the episode I felt is leading up too much to the reveal. Reminds me of the RTD days where the real milk is in the second part and all the set up and mystery is in the first.

 

[Kruezerman]

Interesting to note, I never heard an impact when Danny got hit by the car. Clara should have heard the phone drop or something.

Pretty good episode, hopefully the Master getting through to our side means that Moffat is gonna start wrapping up all his story lines since season 5.

 

[SeerSGB]

Rewatching. The part where the Doctor says "it's rubbish", it's as if either the TARDIS told him what was up or he clued in on what she was doing.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Intrinsical: I'm assuming that St Paul's is actually her TARDIS.

I don't think the entire cathedral is her TARDIS, possibly just the door frame.

You need to think more like The Master. Try on an evil laugh or two for size. Chew some scenery.

 

[McDuff]

I don't often come to this forum (I don't like to be spoiled about TV episodes), but I post last year that I really missed RTD. I said Moffat writing was too childish. He even told us that he was writing for what he consider a children shows. Instead of writing for the children in us. But this year, even without considering this episode, the writing has much improved. It's more mature. IMO, Moffat really turned it around. I enjoy this season much more than last season. It's a difference between a 6 and a 9.

I wasn't spoiled at all about this episode and I think it was fantastic. The script, the acting, the direction. Everything was perfect and well balanced. Looking forward for next weeks episode which probably won't be as good but could be great too.

This episode is a 9 for me.

Can anybody explain to me what was the deal at the beginning with Clara and the yellow sticky notes and her conversation with Danny Pink? She was acting weird and i don't understand why or what that scene was suppose to be about (eg she has trouble communicating? She's shy? etc?). What's the deal with what was written on the yellow notes and why? Why does she have yellow notes like that? I'm confused.

 

[Mitty]

Thinking about it again, by far the most disturbing thing for me is that your soul goes to some kind of "afterlife", and, far worse, that you feel cremation. The actually did freak me out a bit. I bet at least one person out there changes to a burial after watching this.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Anyways, good episode. Thought it was a bit rough until they TARDIS'd to the mausoleum, but after that it was a lovely slow build to a cliffhanger. Love the whole dark water thing - I don't care if there's a logical need for it or not, but its always great to remind people that there are human beings inside of Cybermen, particularly since their current exterior design is a bit robotish. And showing is always superior to telling on TV.

 

[SeerSGB]

Thinking about it again, by far the most disturbing thing for me is that your soul goes to some kind of "afterlife", and, far worse, that you feel cremation. The actually did freak me out a bit. I bet at least one person out there changes to a burial after watching this.

Reminded me of the scene from the Return Of The Living Dead (ROTLD Clip). About the dead can feel pain.

I don't often come to this forum (I don't like to be spoiled about TV episodes), but I post last year that I really missed RTD. I said Moffat writing was too childish. He even told us that he was writing for what he consider a children shows. Instead of writing for the children in us. But this year, even without considering this episode, the writing has much improved. It's more mature. IMO, Moffat really turned it around. I enjoy this season much more than last season. It's a difference between a 6 and a 9.

I wasn't spoiled at all about this episode and I think it was fantastic. The script, the acting, the direction. Everything was perfect and well balanced. Looking forward for next weeks episode which probably won't be as good but could be great too.

This episode is a 9 for me.

Can anybody explain to me what was the deal at the beginning with Clara and the yellow sticky notes and her conversation with Danny Pink? She was acting weird and i don't understand why or what that scene was suppose to be about (eg she has trouble communicating? She's shy? etc?). What's the deal with what was written on the yellow notes and why? Why does she have yellow notes like that? I'm confused.

I think it goes back to what the Doctor said in "Into The Forest" about humans forgetting.

 

[Mr Awe]

You have to wonder:

If Missy collects minds/bodies through out time and space or did she just follow the Doctor around? If it's just those related to the Doctor as it seems, she's got something else in mind rather than just a generic invasion of Earth.

Does she bring the recently dead bodies back and the Cyberman process reanimates them?

Or, are they new "blanks"?

Why do Cybermen need the skeletons which don't have the muscle and skin? Surely just the brains would be enough?

Is this in the present? It seems to be setup as a corporation with visitors and inspections. Of course this doesn't exist in the present so perhaps it's a ways in the future?

What is Clara's role? Why did Missy pick her? There's more here.

Mr Awe

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

3W is a trap for the most dangerous being in the universe.

I won't say Who because... well, spoilers.

 

[Saul]

BTW if anyone is interested you can see the time rotar moving around the 12 minute mark.

 

[Mr Awe]

Herkimer, well, spoilers plus the fact that you don't know!

But, interesting theory. I do suspect that Missy has more than a generic invasion in mind.

Mr Awe

 

[Guy Gardener]

She's building an army.

Not a cyberarmy.

Those are not Cybermen.

She's just co-opting misappropriated Cybertechnology.

Drones on her business.

No cyber agenda.

She wants to stuff as many humans into that infosphere as possible.

Human conciousness used as RAM?

2.3 billion children on Gallifrey when the Doctor burnt it and Gallifreyan culture is millions of years old.

The old matrix was stuffed with the dead of Gallifrey. All the dead or just the noteworthy? All gallifreyans or just timelords if not all Gallifreyans are Timelords.

10 times as many humans, is not going to amount to much if they are a thousand times thicker. You'll wind up with he Emperor Daleks problem that it takes him 2 hundred thousand years to make an army potent enough to attack the Earth from diluted human extract.

Is everyone in the inforsphere being tricked into willingly severing there connection with heir bodies? Or was that really an act of kindness

 

[chrisspringob]

Can anybody explain to me what was the deal at the beginning with Clara and the yellow sticky notes and her conversation with Danny Pink? She was acting weird and i don't understand why or what that scene was suppose to be about (eg she has trouble communicating? She's shy? etc?). What's the deal with what was written on the yellow notes and why? Why does she have yellow notes like that? I'm confused.

The notes are filled with references to her recent adventures with The Doctor.

I actually think the explanation is that…..she's pregnant. She was trying to work out how long it'd been since her last period, and it was a bit tricky, because she'd spent time outside the normal timeline with The Doctor, so she was trying to work out how long it'd been for her own body clock, using the sticky notes to help work it out.

That then explains why she was being all serious with Danny, and had to tell him that she loved him. She was leading up to the big news, when he got hit by a car.

 

[Awesome Possum]

In my brain, several pieces of the puzzle has clicked into place. Here's a speculation on one thing I think will happen in the next episode.

Spoiler: Finale

Q: How does Missy collect all these dead people not just in the present, but also in the past (Deep Breath's robot) and in the future (Soldier woman in Into The Dalek)?
A: She's a Timelord. She has a TARDIS. Quite possibly she teleports out them at the very last second (ala something similar to Time Heist's "teleporter disguised as disintegrator thingy"). Missy then duplicates a body (without a mind) and teleports it in as a corpse.

Meaning they never died, every human being is still alive. Granted, most of them have already been cyber-converted. But the key point here is that Danny Pink never killed the child. Danny Pink isn't dead. There's a strong possibility The Doctor will save the child Danny thought he killed (too young to be cyber-converted), and save Danny too while he's still at it (he is too newly "dead" to be cyber-converted). Yay, happy ending.

Spoiler: Spoilers???

I can see that happen. There was a line about making sure that his body wasn't cremated and it currently being cold. He could be in a morgue right now, allowing his mind to be downloaded into it once the Doctor saves the day.

 

[Orac Zen]

This episode was going so well (first episode in weeks I'd found even mildly interesting, in fact). Despite my still being unable to comprehend what Clara sees in Danny the cipher, her reaction to his demise and her behaviour toward the Doctor was wonderfully portrayed. I'm actually liking Clara this season and the entire sequence of events with the "volcano" and inside the TARDIS was brilliant. There was suitable creepiness about the "afterlife" and the assorted revelations along the way.

And then it was all pretty much pissed away with the Missy person turning out to be the Master. So obvious, so trite and so unimaginative. Throw in the frelling Cybermen and the episode just fell in a screaming heap in the space of a few minutes. Oh, well.

Interesting to note, I never heard an impact when Danny got hit by the car. Clara should have heard the phone drop or something.

Yeah, I thought that was rather ridiculous.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Maybe Clara will use the Hyperscape Body Swap Ticket on the shelf to get out of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T95-p-jSEK4