Dr. Crusher was the weak link of the show

[indolover]

Dr. Crusher always used to see situations in Earth/human morality/sensibilities, which hardly makes sense when all other cultures in the galaxy couldn't give a crap about human values. They have no reason to do so.

In Ethics, she was telling Picard that Worf was being too stubborn and unco-operative in his treatments, but Worf is a Klingon. He may have lived with humans for most of his life, but his heart was Klingon. If living as disabled is not consistent with Klingon beliefs, who is Crusher to say no? lol... Worf's God (,i.e. Kahless) laid down these values, so again who is Crusher to say otherwise?

The Federation is obviously multi-species in nature. So this in itself means that one must accept and embrace cultural diversity, especially when serving in Starfleet.

 

[MrGoodAlex]

I totally agree. It was moments like that when I wished Dr. Pulaski would've remained on board the Enterprise. See Act I of the episode Up The Long Ladder to understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Subcommander R.]

Hippocratic Oath. No physician can do harm.

 

[Bacl]

I actually always thought that the other Doctor in "Ethics" should have been Doctor Pulaski.

Would have been a nice head-to-head between the two best Doctors in Starfleet. Also, it would have had the added element that Doctor Pulaski really did care about Worf and want him to recover, she would have just been exploring unconventional methods.

Either way, I prefer Bev much more.

 

[sonak]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.


Do you have a similar problem with McCoy's frequent criticisms of the Vulcan path?

 

[Vinkula]

She's my favourite of the TNG cast

 

[BillJ]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.

But the flip side of the coin is that you have to be ready and able to accept others morals and values. The very nature of Starfleet assures that you're going to be coming into morals and values that conflict with your own on a regular basis.

If Crusher couldn't accept that... then she was probably better off being in private practice on Earth.

 

[Mary Ann]

The Hippocratic Oath is a good point, but I'm assuming that Starfleet doctors swear a modified version thereof that accepts and respects the values of non-human cultures. Heck, the oath they take may be based on an oath from another culture altogether. I agree that Crusher was out of line to judge Worf's behaviour in Ethics, as Worf was basing his decisions on his cultural beliefs.

I much preferred Pulaski over Crusher. The latter was never much of a 3-dimensional character for me.

 

[J.Ashmore]

Crusher is also my favorite character on TNG.

 

[sonak]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.

But the flip side of the coin is that you have to be ready and able to accept others morals and values. The very nature of Starfleet assures that you're going to be coming into morals and values that conflict with your own on a regular basis.

If Crusher couldn't accept that... then she was probably better off being in private practice on Earth.

I can accept if you think the Christopher Nolan Batman films are better than the Tim Burton ones, but that doesn't mean I have to be quiet about trying to persuade you of just how wrong your position is.


The choice in "Ethics" was ultimately Worf's, but Dr. Crusher can certainly express her disapproval without forbidding him from undergoing the procedure.

 

[BillJ]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.

But the flip side of the coin is that you have to be ready and able to accept others morals and values. The very nature of Starfleet assures that you're going to be coming into morals and values that conflict with your own on a regular basis.

If Crusher couldn't accept that... then she was probably better off being in private practice on Earth.

I can accept if you think the Christopher Nolan Batman films are better than the Tim Burton ones, but that doesn't mean I have to be quiet about trying to persuade you of just how wrong your position is.


The choice in "Ethics" was ultimately Worf's, but Dr. Crusher can certainly express her disapproval without forbidding him from undergoing the procedure.

I actually do like the Burton films better.

 

[Joshonator]

Tbh i never really liked crusher or troi very much as characters. Crusher is basically a failed copy of Mccoy, but she always seems to get annoyed instead of showing genuine care for the patients which isn't fun to watch at all.

 

[Leathco]

Gotta say I think Pulaski had more character development in a single season than Crusher in 6 seasons and 4 movies.

 

[heavylids]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.

But the flip side of the coin is that you have to be ready and able to accept others morals and values. The very nature of Starfleet assures that you're going to be coming into morals and values that conflict with your own on a regular basis.

If Crusher couldn't accept that... then she was probably better off being in private practice on Earth.

I can accept if you think the Christopher Nolan Batman films are better than the Tim Burton ones, but that doesn't mean I have to be quiet about trying to persuade you of just how wrong your position is.

What is wrong about it? It is simply a question of ethics. If a patient is refusing treatment, then the Doctor can't perform the operation. And that is by today's standards. A doctor in the 24th century should have been very open to unfamiliar customs that weren't of Earth origin.

 

[indolover]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.


Do you have a similar problem with McCoy's frequent criticisms of the Vulcan path?

In the real world, a physician should not impinge on the personal values/morals of the patient, in the course of treating him/her. A physician should also not question or criticise a patient's morals, and should accept his/her personality/thinking as is. This is standard medical ethics/practice. This is why doctors often tailor their treatments for specific religious groups; in short it's not a doctor's place to question why a patient believes in xyz, or why xyz treatment should supersede his/her morals.

Crusher said that Worf was being stubborn, but Klingons can't live as disabled, it's just not conducive to their value system. It just seems arrogant that Crusher expected Worf to forgo all of his people's traditions, which his God laid down centuries before then, simply because it seems offensive/objectionable to her.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Ethics was the one episode I really, really wanted to strangle Dr. Crusher.

She just annoyed the living hell out of me in that one with the self-righteousness. I realize she was written that way that day, and if they meant to piss people off, they did a great job of it.

Generally, I agree she was <one> of the weakest characters on the show, followed closely by Deanna.

 

[sonak]

so.... your philosophy is to be quiet about your morals and values and not stand up for them? Not a bumper sticker I can endorse.


Do you have a similar problem with McCoy's frequent criticisms of the Vulcan path?

In the real world, a physician should not impinge on the personal values/morals of the patient, in the course of treating him/her. A physician should also not question or criticise a patient's morals, and should accept his/her personality/thinking as is. This is standard medical ethics/practice. This is why doctors often tailor their treatments for specific religious groups; in short it's not a doctor's place to question why a patient believes in xyz, or why xyz treatment should supersede his/her morals.

Crusher said that Worf was being stubborn, but Klingons can't live as disabled, it's just not conducive to their value system. It just seems arrogant that Crusher expected Worf to forgo all of his people's traditions, which his God laid down centuries before then, simply because it seems offensive/objectionable to her.

it's "arrogant" of her to lay down her perspective on things? So, free speech takes a back seat to offending someone's cultural beliefs?


So, basically what you're saying is that one's cultural beliefs shouldn't be questioned..... because they're cultural beliefs? That's circular, and it's hard to see how change would ever come to a society without the free exchange of different viewpoints.

there's a big difference between accepting someone might DISAGREE with your values and saying that a person shouldn't even be allowed to have a conversation about it.


seems like there's a lot of advocacy of thought policing in this thread.

 

[DoBa]

I never cared for Crusher. I wanted to see more Nurse Ogawa.

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

I liked Crusher more than Pulaski. I thought Pulaski was too "crusty." She wasn't much of a McCoy-type, and she was an extremely poor substitute for Dr. Crusher.

But Nurse Ogawa was awesome. She should've been the doctor. In "Genesis," she has to act as the doctor for Beverly while she's recovering from Worf's poison. And she's the doctor in some of the alternate realities in Worf's experiences in "Parallels" I think.

 

[Tomalak]

TNG never had too much luck with the female characters. Tasha Yar was a bold attempt, but fatally undermined by Denise Crosby's inability to act. On the other hand, can you imagine if Marina Sirtis had been cast as Macha Hernandez after all? I'm not sure that would have worked at all. Every episode would have been like "Face of the Enemy" as she "SAYS EVERYTHING IN A SHOUTY UNCONVINCING ANGRY VOICE".

Then the other two of course were Troi and Crusher, both traditional caring roles of the therapist and the doctor. Troi improved after a rocky start, and in fairness, so did Sirtis. Despite what I said above, she grew into the role, and made Troi very likeable. Crusher was always there, and Gates McFadden was always a very competent and reliable actress, it's just there wasn't much there. Not her fault of course, the writers always seemed to struggle with the Crusher episodes, and "Sub Rosa" in particular is a steaming turd. I preferred Pulaski too, she provided a spark for other characters, worked well with Picard, Worf, Riker and Data, and was generally a more vital and lively presence.

Jeri Taylor was obviously annoyed by these two limited roles, which is why we saw Crusher commanding the ship in "Descent II", and Deanna took the magic captain's test in the episode which I forget. Probably why characters like Kira, Janeway and Torres were invented for the subsequent spin-offs.