Double Standards, Extreme Redshirt moment

[AntonyF]

i enjoyed the 3rd season (xindi-arch) the most so far... 4th is so far a step back for me, but i still hve 10 episodes to go.

Sorry for my moaning, of course i somehow enjoy it or i woudnt watch it..... it simply could have been written better in many instances, and the characters have hardly "edges" and surprises so far....

I agree season three was best, and season four was good for me but not quite as good.

If Manny Coto had been on board from season one the show it may have done better but by coming in on season three he was trying to use a bucket to stop the Titanic sinking. The show had tanked in the ratings, Trek goodwill was largely over and even UPN was imploding around it (it lasted a year longer than Enterprise). The writers were burnt out. The network ignored Berman's request to rest the franchise for a year. It had so many things working against it.

I remember at the time I quickly saw bad signs. "Terra Nova" was a dull episode and by even bringing back past guest actor like Erick Avari just gave it a feeling of "I've seen all this before". It was not enough to ignite a new show. I think I was also Trekked out and I didn't see a lot of season one and all of season two until some years later. So I understand what you're saying.

Later, I watched it... and I think given the gap of time, no new Trek and now in the face of the bullshit they spew out in Trek's name I appreciate Enterprise more as it's the Berman era. But the tiredness shows, which is sad.

As to Archer I've never analysed it but I know people have talked at length about the inconsistency of his character.

 

[FederationHistorian]

The same "supermoral" Captain Arhcer who regularely is willing to risk his whole ship and crew for not harming anybody is boarding an Illyrian Vessel they befriended before, stole their warpcoil, leave them marooned for years in an enemy space (for the greater good)... and then after earth is saved, he is not going to look again for them

Maybe the Vulcans sent a ship after them. Maybe Columbia was sent to look for them. Maybe even the Xindi went looking for them after sending Enterprise home. Maybe they encountered an automated repair station on the way home and everything turned out okay. No one knows. They were an afterthought to the whole crew. And seemingly everyone else in the quadrant as they were never mentioned again.

The same captain who helps on the cowboy planet the now supressed former slaveholder race to emancipate in the now human dominated society, doesnt care at all about the destinies of hundred enslaved humanoids on the orion slave market as soon as he has his crew back.

It’s also known that Archer had an ancestor that fought in the Eugenics Wars. And that Augments have been described as being like Napolean, and associated with tens of millions of deaths. I don’t think Archer can be faulted in prioritizing Augments, since they could end up triggering a major interstellar war. And they just got out of one with the Xindi.

Plus, Enterprise is only one ship, and part of a fleet comprised of less than a dozen starships. You should really be asking what TF are the Vulcans doing, since they are the major interstellar power in this period. Yet they too are looking the other way when it comes to the Orions and their slave market.

He denies the asylum request on a humanoid who is only used as a breeding incubator, but enters uninvited the camp of an hunting party on their "game planet", being their guests, and then decided to help the prey of a hunting party not being because they appear for him like a girl he deems attractive.

Well first, it was the other way around. And T’Pol did question Archer’s decision making there.

Next, I'll start by saying that none of the Big Three are great with queer identity. Trip cannot conceive of a third gender or alternative lifestyles (which looks really bad from a mid-2020s perspective, WW3/post-atomic horror taken into consideration or not), and T’Pol uses the wrong pronoun in reference to the cogenitor. The only time we EVER hear proper pronouns used in the series for a different gender is from Hoshi in regard to the white sticky creature near the end of “Vox Sola”.

If looked at from Archer's perspective, Archer is trying to forge ties with a power that is at least three centuries ahead of them in technology. Which is important to him as someone who feels like humanity was held back by the Vulcans. Reed got Starfleet schematics for photonic torpedoes while wooing the Vissian tactical officer, which ended up being of great help by the time they were facing the Xindi. Who knows what else the Vissans would have shared if Trip did not mess things up? Granted, Archer should have pressed for more information from the Vissians about the cogenitors before coming to a decision. But it does not change the fact that Enterprise was outmatched and outclassed, and would have been overpowered by the Vissians in a firefight if they wanted to take the cogenitor back even if Archer did grant asylum.

It’s also nonsense that Trip did not think to consult Hoshi, or especially Travis (who’s seen and experienced things Trip hasn’t because he’s a space boomer), on a second opinion on what he was doing. Maybe if Trip had, and they opposed him, he might have reconsidered what he was doing. Frankly, he was let off easy by Archer.

But that's the point of the episode. That there is no easy answer.

 

[DonIago]

It’s also nonsense that Trip did not think to consult Hoshi, or especially Travis (who’s seen and experienced things Trip hasn’t because he’s a space boomer), on a second opinion on what he was doing. Maybe if Trip had, and they opposed him, he might have reconsidered what he was doing. Frankly, he was let off easy by Archer.

IIRC he did approach T'Pol first, who told him to drop it, so technically talking with Hoshi or Travis would have been a third opinion?

I don't think I really liked Trip before this episode, but I certainly liked him less after.

 

[Farscape One]

IIRC he did approach T'Pol first, who told him to drop it, so technically talking with Hoshi or Travis would have been a third opinion?

I don't think I really liked Trip before this episode, but I certainly liked him less after.

"COGENITOR" is a great episode, but it really damages Trip's character badly. It's the only reason I can't rate it a 10.

 

[DonIago]

If I thought it was the intention of the writers to challenge viewers' feelings about Trip, I'd give them even more credit for being willing to compromise one of the series' breakout characters this way.

This is making me kind of wish the Trip-T'Pol romance had amounted to:
Trip: Hey T'Pol, I like you and you're hot. We should date.
T'Pol: The first couple of years I knew you, you casually insulted my people. When you encountered other civilizations with values that you felt were different from yours, you imposed your values upon them without even trying to learn more about them first. In your vernacular...how drunk do you think I'd have to be to date you?

 

[Bajorassian]

I just finished season 4.

what i totally didnt understand was the last episode, Totally absurd storyline and unecessary. They simply should have ended with the penultimative episode, you only had to change a few scenes in the last 5 minutes and it would have been a MUCH better ending than this akward "Ryker Historian" episode a hundred years later.

Summa Summarum i was not delighted by the show, i could really enjoy only the third season, the xindi arch is the only well written storyline in the series imo. The Xindi are aswell the only interesting new race(s) they introduced. Athough its anyhow a bit difficut to introduce "new" species in a prequel, which are then logically never mentioned again in shows playing hundreds of years later.

The general idea to make a show in the time before federation was founded was not bad, and in some aspects they did not badly show the "developpement", technically and philosophically, of the "naive" first humns who went to systematically explore space.... but i could have been done better.

If DS) was 9/10 for me and DIS 3/10, the i would give ENT maybe 6/10

Simply the characters and dialogues were mostly boring.... even Hoshi and Travis behaved like well educated white american upperclass elite students, all almost moralically perfect from the beginning and boring as hell.

Yes this disturbed me too, they were all so american, everything is so american and has to happen in the USA, any alien crashing on earth always hits the 3% chance to crash in the USA

I know its an US show, but still, not even humanity is truly culturally diverse in star trek, its just a bit the US society of nowadays. Trip is the Redneck "blue collar" guy, Hoshi the superclever elite asian american, Travis the black american coming from modest (father "busdriver") background working up his way, and Archer the middle age white guy still being in control....

Reed with his intentional british "stick in the arse" boringness is almost written most interesting.

But realy few "ambigous" characters with real developpement lige Shran, Degra, Soval

Maybe this is the dilemma of series on a starship.... really interesting multi-faceted characters like Quark, Garak, Dukat, Winn would never be on a Earth/Starfleet Starship as regulars.... maybe therefore DS9 was so superior in this aspect, all kind of people can come to spacestations who are not part of the (perfect peope) crew

 

[Farscape One]

A lot of people, myself included, hate the finale and also think of "TERRA PRIME" as the real finale of ENT.

"THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..." was just abysmal. Worst finale in the franchise. Easily.

Frankly, I think it's the second worst episode of ENT.