Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors

[ashleytinger]

I've thought about that. But what exactly were they thinking the main engineering room was for then? It's obviously not located in the nacelles. And there's a dilithium reactor there (we see it in "Elaan of Troyius") and large power tubes visible through the mesh that must be generating power for the engines. I've created my project with the traditional idea that the power is generated in the main engineering facility and then fed up through the pylons to the nacelles.

Sigh. I know I shouldn't get caught too hard in racking my brain trying to figure it out...it was just a TV show afterall!

LOL You're not the only one. I had a huge 'engineering' session about that when I was building the scout ship. Honestly, it's why it took me so long to finish her. It broke my brain.

I think with the Saladin especially you could go that route and the Engineering section in the aft of the saucer regulates both the nacelle and the Impulse engines and not have to be huge. It could also be why the Connie's are so 'revered' in Starfleet, because the design could have been that much different already with them as opposed to other ships in the fleet and they were one of the first to really push that idea forward?

Just a thought. I'll stop breaking both our brains with this... for now.

 

[aridas sofia]

Ok. Next project. So, I've had this itch to model some TOS stuff other than the Enterprise lately. Along the lines of ships, a planetary starbase, an assortment of space stations, and some alien ships, and both exteriors and interiors of those things mentioned as well.

I figured I'd start with something small and a kit-bash of sorts., which has led me to the Saladin/Hermes class. I know many people may not be a fan of this single-nacelle Franz Joseph design, but I rather like it, warts and all. The hanging deflector dish does look a little silly on paper, but that silliness lends the design a very mid-century look, IMHO.

Notice I took a cue from these 1981 FJ-esque Saladin-class plans and added two hangar bay ports on the underside of the saucer. And yes, I made sure that a Class F Shuttlecraft fits inside

Anyway, I knocked out the model tonight and will paint it tomorrow, which should go pretty quickly since I can just drag and drop the procedural textures I made of the Enterprise onto this model, make some tweaks, and call it a day. Having gotten the framework of a TOS starship out of the way is going to make modeling future TOS starships a breeze.

Oh, and I know that there's Gene's heavily-debated rule about nacelles working in pairs and all, but I'm choosing to ignore it since we have plenty of canon single- or tri-nacelled ships in later Trek series. Plus, I admit I really really like the FJ designs!

(Forgive the darker lower saucer on that bottom ortho...something was up with the material I'd assigned. It was late when I generated this...)

FYI, the FJ-esque plans of Saladin were penned by Alan Everhart, who served as a sailor on the battleship Iowa and was killed in that ship’s turret explosion in the late 1980s.

As for the dangly dish, I recently had a chance of working on the Saladin design (and that of lighter variants) and illustrated the “dish on a stick” as fully pivoting on a retractable mast. When facing “down” it can be retracted fully against the saucer.

I don’t have an image of that ship handy on my phone, but here is my Surya-class Reliant precursor Avenger with a similar mount.

 

[Maurice]

Plus, the original intent for the warp engines was that everything was happening in the nacelles. That changed with TNG, but in TOS, that wasn't necessarily the case.

TMP.

I don’t have an image of that ship handy on my phone, but here is my Surya-class Reliant precursor Avenger with a similar mount.

Straighten out the nacelle pylons and that'd be all right. It looks like a crab otherwise.

 

[Jesse1066]

For the D7 bridge, we've seen D7 bridges in TOS, TAS, Voyager, and Discovery, along with the K't'inga bridge in TMP. Just about the only thing that was totally consistent between them was that they were all totally different from each other. I'd say there's a lot of room for artistic license on this.

 

[Bill Thompson]

...Let me know if there's some other stuff you'd like to see! I may not commit to any suggestions but who knows what might tempt me!

I have a simple one for you, Donny. If you get around to the Ptolemy class, do a FJ Starliner for it to haul (rather than a generic cargo container, I mean.) I've wanted to see a Starliner "for real" since I was thirteen!

 

[Norsehound]

Hmm... dunno why, but the Series version forward nacelle caps washed out the delicious christmas-light diversity under them. Maybe tone down the light intensity in there?

No light out of the pilotprise's warp pods is really jarring, compared to how fantastically lit the rest of the model is!

P.S. How weird would it be to get shots of the pilot model with other registries? I'm a sucker for rare images of the other 12 Constitutions- the pilotprise as the Constellation might be a treat, considering it's implied to be older.

 

[Donny]

I have a simple one for you, Donny. If you get around to the Ptolemy class, do a FJ Starliner for it to haul (rather than a generic cargo container, I mean.) I've wanted to see a Starliner "for real" since I was thirteen!

Oh, that's already on my list!

Hmm... dunno why, but the Series version forward nacelle caps washed out the delicious christmas-light diversity under them. Maybe tone down the light intensity in there?.

Yeah, I noticed that myself. I had to overhaul the nacelle cap setup I had going because it was at the 11 foot model scale. Scaling them up to full size, I had to "re-light" it basically, and I noticed the effect doesn't look as good as it did before. I'll have to do some further tweaking.

P.S. How weird would it be to get shots of the pilot model with other registries? I'm a sucker for rare images of the other 12 Constitutions- the pilotprise as the Constellation might be a treat, considering it's implied to be older.

With the introduction of the Saladin class, I'm actually going to be re-vamping the system I'm using to display hull registries tonight or tomorrow to make it easier to generate new ones. So in the next few days I can do that for you. I'm also doing a few shots with custom registries for @STEPhon IT after I get that task done, so I'd be glad to take some shots for you as well. PM me with your request!

 

[Donny]

I don’t have an image of that ship handy on my phone, but here is my Surya-class Reliant precursor Avenger with a similar mount.

@Tallguy just sent me his renders of this ship this morning! I also have this printed out at home as part of my collection of your blueprints

I may take some cues from this, however I'm definitely wanting to stick with a rollbar, and I'll be taking some inspiration from Prologic9's TOS Miranda too.

 

[Maurice]

@Tallguy just sent me his renders of this ship this morning! I also have this printed out at home as part of my collection of your blueprints

I may take some cues from this, however I'm definitely wanting to stick with a rollbar, and I'll be taking some inspiration from Prologic9's TOS Miranda too.

Prologic9's ship is mostly fine except for that pod above, which looks is a mismatch to the rest of the ship being overdetailed.

 

[Donny]

Prologic9's ship is mostly fine except for that pod above, which looks is a mismatch to the rest of the ship being overdetailed.

I agree. My ideas is to keep the deflector on that upper pod but have the cowling behind it similar to the deflector cowling of the Connie, and move the impulse engines back down to where they were on the TWOK Reliant at the aft end of the elongated primary hull structure.. Anywho, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[aridas sofia]

@Tallguy just sent me his renders of this ship this morning! I also have this printed out at home as part of my collection of your blueprints

I may take some cues from this, however I'm definitely wanting to stick with a rollbar, and I'll be taking some inspiration from Prologic9's TOS Miranda too.

This is my refit of the Surya-class that was progressing in dock above Starbase 11 during the events of “Court Martial”.

 

[aridas sofia]

Straighten out the nacelle pylons and that'd be all right. It looks like a crab otherwise.

I would but that design is nearly 40 years old, I am somewhat chagrined to admit. I can say however, the crab appearance was intentional. I am from Maryland, and have been chased and grabbed by those tasty little f%#kers. In my mind, the precursor of Khan’s ship needed an *ahem* aggressive profile.

 

[aridas sofia]

@Tallguy just sent me his renders of this ship this morning! I also have this printed out at home as part of my collection of your blueprints

I may take some cues from this, however I'm definitely wanting to stick with a rollbar, and I'll be taking some inspiration from Prologic9's TOS Miranda too.

FYI I posted this to show you the retractable dish mount with an eye to using it on Saladin. I hadn’t realized you were looking for a Reliant precursor.

 

[Mytran]

I've thought about that. But what exactly were they thinking the main engineering room was for then? It's obviously not located in the nacelles. And there's a dilithium reactor there (we see it in "Elaan of Troyius") and large power tubes visible through the mesh that must be generating power for the engines. I've created my project with the traditional idea that the power is generated in the main engineering facility and then fed up through the pylons to the nacelles.

Sigh. I know I shouldn't get caught too hard in racking my brain trying to figure it out...it was just a TV show afterall!

The Engine Room as originally depicted was a "shirtsleeves" control room, as much devoted to nacelle operations as channelling the output of the warp engines into a useable form by the ship's systems. Dilithium in TOS took on the role of a converter of "warp energy" into "ship energy", much like the alternator on an aircraft. All matter/antimatter reactions consistently took place in the nacelles - unless Season 2.

Then John Meredith Lucas began writing & directing episodes and the emphasis became more and more about a single, centralised M/AM reactor in the secondary hull. By S3 the the central floor mounted mechanism had even been outfitted with a retractable dilithium crystal holder (it was there in S2 but without the crystal ejector).

Curiously, the original intent (that of isolated reactors, one in each nacelle like an aircraft) was still kicking around the minds of some writers as late as The Savage Curtain, where the shielding between M/AM supplies is about to break down and Kirk suggests jettisoning the nacelles.


TLDR version: you might as well stick with whatever interpretation you like best, because they are BOTH correct!

 

[Norsehound]

I've never seen a rollbar on a TOS miranda I've ever liked- they've always looked kinda dorky to me one way or another. Considering the Constitution didn't have a dedicated photon launcher until the refit, I see little reason for a TOS Miranda to have this kind of feature. But, that's me.

Out of that dissatisfaction with every other TOS Miranda depiction (not liking the canted saucers on the Surya, not liking the TMP swoosh to the pylons like the design above), I made my own. I've since lost the model but rebuilt part of it. One thing I worked into the design was changing the nacelle pods in subtle ways to reflect a different engine design.

With the introduction of the Saladin class, I'm actually going to be re-vamping the system I'm using to display hull registries tonight or tomorrow to make it easier to generate new ones. So in the next few days I can do that for you. I'm also doing a few shots with custom registries for @STEPhon IT after I get that task done, so I'd be glad to take some shots for you as well. PM me with your request!

PM sent!

 

[Donny]

The Engine Room as originally depicted was a "shirtsleeves" control room, as much devoted to nacelle operations as channelling the output of the warp engines into a useable form by the ship's systems. Dilithium in TOS took on the role of a converter of "warp energy" into "ship energy", much like the alternator on an aircraft. All matter/antimatter reactions consistently took place in the nacelles - unless Season 2.

Then John Meredith Lucas began writing & directing episodes and the emphasis became more and more about a single, centralised M/AM reactor in the secondary hull. By S3 the the central floor mounted mechanism had even been outfitted with a retractable dilithium crystal holder (it was there in S2 but without the crystal ejector).

Curiously, the original intent (that of isolated reactors, one in each nacelle like an aircraft) was still kicking around the minds of some writers as late as The Savage Curtain, where the shielding between M/AM supplies is about to break down and Kirk suggests jettisoning the nacelles.


TLDR version: you might as well stick with whatever interpretation you like best, because they are BOTH correct!

Thanks for that rundown!

This is my refit of the Surya-class that was progressing in dock above Starbase 11 during the events of “Court Martial”.

Thanks for sharing this! I may use some cues from this as well.

I managed to paint the Saladin-class in one night, and get a system together for quickly changing registries. I've used "U.S.S. Xerxes NCC-505" from the FJ Tech Manual for the following renders. Let me know any feedback you all may have so I can take it into consideration before calling this "done".

This ship isn't as camera friendly as the Enterprise, unfortunately. It's almost as if every angle of the Enterprise is fantastic. This one notsomuch. But I still love the simplicity of the design.






A close-up of the hanging deflector assembly, and the starboard-side hangar doors above it. I've taken the colored lights below the Connie's hangar bay doors and added them to both the port and starboard hangar doors of the Saladin. Felt right. I imagine the Saladin-class to only carry two shuttles (and perhaps two work-pods), and the entirety of the two decks containing the hangar doors (Decks 8 and 9) being used for cargo space and the launch, maintenance, and storage of those auxiliary craft.


I've also added running lights on the port and starboard sides of the aft of the nacelles, and colored the forward dorsal edge a light brown in contrast to the Enterprise's blue/green.

What do you guys think?

 

[Norsehound]

It's nice how those colored lights slot right in there. I was never a fan of the typical saucer shuttlebays, but I admit, yours looks good. The only impulse I have is to point the hangar aft instead of forward.

She looks good otherwise. Would love to see renders of her beside the Connies for some faux starbase shots we could have used in things like The Ultimate Computer or hanging over Starbase 11 in Court Marshal.

 

[Donny]

It's nice how those colored lights slot right in there. I was never a fan of the typical saucer shuttlebays, but I admit, yours looks good. The only impulse I have is to point the hangar aft instead of forward.

She looks good otherwise. Would love to see renders of her beside the Connies for some faux starbase shots we could have used in things like The Ultimate Computer or hanging over Starbase 11 in Court Marshal.

I purposefully kept the hangar bay doors simple, which I prefer over making them corrugated or labeled with a giant number. I admit I didn’t even consider pointing them aft. I basically chose these spots because they’re in the relatively same spots as the Refit Enterprise’s underside docking ports and were in this location on the Saladin schematics I referenced earlier. When I get to working on the Ptolemy, perhaps I’ll fiddle with pointing the bays aftwards and see how that looks.

As for your suggestion about a starbase shot, that’s actually the ultimate goal for me creating all these: to create a busy shipyard scene over Starbase 11. It will all take a lot of work, but I just may get there.

 

[aridas sofia]

Your Saladin renders are wonderful, Donny. So what I’m going to write is meant as no criticism. I’ve never seen the dish support rendered more beautifully. As far as I know, I came up with that armature design to hold the deflector dish back when I did Surya which was, as I said above, nearly 40 years ago. I did it because FJ’s simple mast just seemed... uninspired. I wanted to give it some more style and the impression of more strength.

That being said, when I revisited the question while doing these FJTM pages, I realized I was wrong way back when. By making the dish the way you have shown it, it’s stuck down there- exposed. And particularly on the destroyer/scout designs, it’s in the way of the nacelle dome and whatever it does.

The simplest way to deal with the problem is to return to the FJ stick. He shows the dish on a ball mount. I know that is unlike the Enterprise dish which was attached as you have it - able to pitch up and down. But a ball mount would not only allow the dish a full hemispheric sweep, it would allow it to retract to a shallower extension and thus avoid interfering with the nacelle operation. It would even allow it to retract fully and operate as an enhanced version of the sensor dome it replaces.

In the end it’s up to you. She’s your baby. I’m just saying, the old way may be the better way. It might not be as cool looking. But it makes sense.

 

[ashleytinger]

Thanks for that rundown!

Thanks for sharing this! I may use some cues from this as well.

I managed to paint the Saladin-class in one night, and get a system together for quickly changing registries. I've used "U.S.S. Xerxes NCC-505" from the FJ Tech Manual for the following renders. Let me know any feedback you all may have so I can take it into consideration before calling this "done".

This ship isn't as camera friendly as the Enterprise, unfortunately. It's almost as if every angle of the Enterprise is fantastic. This one notsomuch. But I still love the simplicity of the design.






A close-up of the hanging deflector assembly, and the starboard-side hangar doors above it. I've taken the colored lights below the Connie's hangar bay doors and added them to both the port and starboard hangar doors of the Saladin. Felt right. I imagine the Saladin-class to only carry two shuttles (and perhaps two work-pods), and the entirety of the two decks containing the hangar doors (Decks 8 and 9) being used for cargo space and the launch, maintenance, and storage of those auxiliary craft.


I've also added running lights on the port and starboard sides of the aft of the nacelles, and colored the forward dorsal edge a light brown in contrast to the Enterprise's blue/green.

What do you guys think?

She may not have as many great angles to shoot at but you did a great job. I think the coloring you chose works really well with it. Looks great!