Donny’s Late TOS Movie Era Interiors

[JonnyQuest037]

I get it, you loved TUC and whatever was there was gold to you, but I have no nostalgia for it and I'm telling you what it looked like to me.

I wouldn't go that far. I love the film, yes (It's probably my favorite of the original cast films), but I'm not blind to its flaws. I just don't consider them big enough to ruin the film for me. YMMV.

Nimoy, at the time, was so excited about his idea - he wanted to direct it

I've never heard this before. What's your source on that?

If Paramount gave Nimoy the time to fully develop his vision, he would've gotten a real budget and probably presented an Enterprise which would've been more in line with TFF

After the disappointment of STV, I just don't see Paramount ponying up much more than they did for VI, and indeed, Meyer's film was made for about the same amount of money as Shatner's. Most sequels have diminishing returns, and it's probably only through STIV becoming a surprise breakout hit that the movie series made it as far as it did. It was smart of Paramount not to spend more than they did, as they maintained a decent profit margin that way.

And why are you assuming that the Enterprise sets in a Nimoy-directed film would look like the ones in a Shatner-directed film? If anything, Nimoy probably would have brought the STV sets more in line with the Enterprise-A bridge we glimpsed at the end of IV.

Bringing TOS in line with TNG which it should've gone

Why? There are 80 years separating the two series. It'd be weird if they looked very similar to each other. The world we live in today doesn't look very much like 1938.

The bigger picture...the money saved reusing tng sets went into the new Klingon ship sets, Klingon court room, and a ice prison.

Exactly. The production design of TUC is pretty great, and some judicious location shooting and matte paintings gave them the most bang for their buck, giving the film the epic scope it needed. Those shots of the Alaskan glaciers during the escape from Rura Penthe are gorgeous, and the locations chosen for the Starfleet briefing and the Khitomer Summit look great. We also got brand new uniforms for the Klingons (never seen before or since), some great alien makeups at Khitomer and Rura Penthe, and some cool costuming on the alien delegations. Star Trek VI spent its money much more intelligently than Generations did, where they blew their budget on the sailing ship Enterprise in the holodeck and a massive Stellar Cartography set, forcing them to reuse uniforms from DS9, recycle the explosion of the Bird of Prey from the end of the previous movie, and climax with three middle-aged men fighting on a jungle gym.

Yeah, there's stuff in TUC where the budget restraints are apparent (Not being able to reshoot Valeris with matching uniform colors hurt the film, IMO, and I would've loved to have seen the scripted crew gathering sequence), but for the most part they were pretty clever in working inside their limitations. Yeah, when I look at the film today it's obvious that the UFP President's office is just a redressed Ten-Forward from TNG, but I had no idea when I first saw the film, and that's all that really mattered.

 

[Tomalak]

I would also give credit to Harve Bennett (ST2-6)

Harve was they key player in making Trek thrive after TMP failed to meet expectations, but he didn't have anything to do with the final Star Trek VI. He wanted to do the Starfleet Academy film, and left when it was obvious Paramount didn't want to go in that direction. I suspect producing TFF didn't help his cause.

 

[Tomalak]

Star Trek VI spent its money much more intelligently than Generations did, where they blew their budget on the sailing ship Enterprise in the holodeck and a massive Stellar Cartography set, forcing them to reuse uniforms from DS9, recycle the explosion of the Bird of Prey from the end of the previous movie, and climax with three middle-aged men fighting on a jungle gym..

I don't think money was a problem, given the studio paid to reshoot the entire climax of the film. Also new uniforms were designed, made and shooting started before it was decided they were crap, and were junked in favour of existing TV costumes.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Also new uniforms were designed, made and shooting started before it was decided they were crap, and were junked in favour of existing TV costumes.

Yes, I know. That's what I was referring to.

 

[Tomalak]

Yes, I know. That's what I was referring to.

Ah ok, I thought you were saying they were forced to use the DS9 costumes because of spending elsewhere. In the end it was a creative choice to use the existing costumes, nothing to do with money, as there simply wasn't time to design yet another set of new costumes. It was either plough on with the new costumes, or go back to the familiar. I think it was the right call.

FWIW Generations looks great on screen, the problem with that film was the script, which isn't about spending money. I think David Carson did a good job with what he had, and the sets are re-lit quite well for the big screen to give it a new look. I like the bridge changes and think Stellar Cartography is a great set. John Alonzo does lovely work. Ultimately they had to make do with the script they had, given the tight time constraints everyone was operating under - both the release date of the film, plus the need to clear the stages to begin pre-production on Voyager.

Ultimately that's the big difference. TUC had a great script, Generations did not.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread Donny!

 

[Jesse1066]

We also got brand new uniforms for the Klingons (never seen before or since)

That's not quite true. The newly made uniforms did appear at least once in DS9, though never in large numbers.

 

[Donny]

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread Donny!

What would these threads be if I didn't allow discussion of all things related? I love the derailments (from time to time)

I just finished the first pass (pre-detailing) of the helm/astrogator combo. Through my study, I've determined that this is indeed the same helm console seen in TMP-TVH, albeit with an altogether new base and astrogator. It's dimensions are exact, but it has been modified for it's re-appearance in TFF. Slats were added to the top and bottom edges of the console's forward face, and the indented gap that was present on the bottom edge of the console's control surface (which was a feature of all TMP consoles) was filled in.

The astrogator seems to be the new one built for TFF, but with a TUC-added section towards the end jutting aft towards where the captain's chair sits. Also, it is evident that the console sits lower than it did in TFF, the forward support base being cut shorter to accomodate.

There are no available schematics of the helm console or the astrotator that I know of, so this shape was quite a challenge to get right just based on screencaps.






Reference:

 

[Star Trek Apolgist]

Joe any blueprints or behind the scene shots in that book that might interest this thread? BTW Donny get the book The Art of Star Trek 1995 the Star Trek 6 section will be helpful. There is an image online from the book of the controls just right of the center of the helm. In the book you can make out almost all the numbers that are written down unlike the online images. There is also a good image of the Left side of the Engineering Panel.
this image but more legible: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/okudagram-st6-2.jpg

 

[Donny]

Joe any blueprints or behind the scene shots in that book that might interest this thread? BTW Donny get the book The Art of Star Trek 1995 the Star Trek 6 section will be helpful. There is an image online from the book of the controls just right of the center of the helm. In the book you can make out almost all the numbers that are written down unlike the online images. There is also a good image of the Left side of the Engineering Panel.
this image but more legible: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/artoftrek/okudagram-st6-2.jpg

Thanks! I’ve owned The Art of Star Trek since it hit shelves, and those photos you speak of are already in my collection, however.

I’ve got clear reference for everything panel the helm console except for:

1) the middle panel with the 6 circular shapes on it

2) Whatever exactly is inside those hemispheres

3) and some of the white text on smooth black surfaces is illegible with available reference.

If anyone has any reference on those listed above, I’d greatly appreciate it.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Just wondering, Donny, whether these flashing red lights will be seen on your helm console?



Seriously, where did those come from? Did Nick Meyer say to the set dresser, "Y'know, there just aren't enough flashing red lights in this shot. Can you hook me up?"

 

[137th Gebirg]

It is kind of reminiscent of the red light at the center of the TOS nav/helm console. Never found it that jarring. Just two of them now.

 

[Donny]

Just wondering, Donny, whether these flashing red lights will be seen on your helm console?

View attachment 6300

Seriously, where did those come from? Did Nick Meyer say to the set dresser, "Y'know, there just aren't enough flashing red lights in this shot. Can you hook me up?"

That is probably EXACTLY what happened.

I thought about maybe doing away with the cylindrical red-alert lights seen above and just make them as part of a flashing graphic in the blank black control surface just behind them, similar to the red-alert indicators on the perimeter consoles:

It is kind of reminiscent of the red light at the center of the TOS nav/helm console. Never found it that jarring. Just two of them now.

I think what's jarring is the fact that the cylindrical housings for those red alert lights are NOT present on the console while the ship isn't on alert status. An obvious quick add to the set.

Also, here's a crude graphic demonstrating what I know/don't know when it comes to details of the helm controls:


The Nav side's physical panel arrangement is just a mirror of the helm side, thankfully. However there is white text on both side I can't make out (including text labeling each of the hemisphere/gyroschope thingies). And, as stated before, the only panel I don't have good reference for is the one in the middle with the 6 circular features. So, if anyone has any good refernce for any of the "?"s above, please let me know!

 

[Donny]

Taking some new captures, I think I can barely make out what the middle panel's label is (Either SYSTEM STATUS or SYSTEM DISPLAY), and I think this is probably the best reference I've found for that middle panel so far. It looks as if shallow glass domes are on top of each of the circular panels, but it is unclear what graphics are underneath those domes. It is also still unclear what the white text in front of Chekov is, but perhaps the last 3 letters are "SYS"?

Also, I have confirmed that the left most panel of the helm console is labeled "OPTICAL DATA NET", not "OPTICAL DATA NETWORK", as I originally thought.

 

[Sibyl]

As far as I can make out, the first one is definitely "System Status". The forms seem to match.

I don't know on the other.

The movies are no longer on Amazon Prime, so I can't take screen caps of those. I only own the digital versions of I-IV.

 

[Donny]

As far as I can make out, the first one is definitely "System Status". The forms seem to match.

I don't know on the other.

The movies are no longer on Amazon Prime, so I can't take screen caps of those. I only own the digital versions of I-IV.

They really need to do a proper high-def transfer of the film. Even on Blu-Ray the quality is crap.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That's not quite true. The newly made uniforms did appear at least once in DS9, though never in large numbers.

Thanks for the correction!

 

[Tomalak]

Fantastic work on that console! Looks pretty good to me, especially considering you were eyeballing it.

I'd never noticed those red alert neons before. Presumably as part of red alert duties, Chekov goes to a cupboard and takes out some extra lamps.

They really need to do a proper high-def transfer of the film. Even on Blu-Ray the quality is crap.

Yes, I haven't bought the Blu-Rays and won't until they do a proper transfer. I've only got the new TWOK release.

 

[Star Trek Apolgist]

As far as the red alert light on the helm, are behind the Plexiglas which is tinted. Therefore you can only see them when the light is on. The same effect is used on the red alert lights on the other consoles and even gives the effect of some of the buttons disappearing when they are off.

 

[Star Trek Apolgist]

Donny what is that white image in the center of the helm image showing your sources for everything? Also I home made some reference for the upper buttons. I will make my images publicly available if you can make a better version and let me have it for my deviant art. You can see what I have so far here (at about 1:55)

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https:// youtu.be /4T7nz_l-Xmc
One problem is the top blue line. But all the text are approxmally correct and all the button colors are correct.

 

[Donny]

As far as the red alert light on the helm, are behind the Plexiglas which is tinted. Therefore you can only see them when the light is on. The same effect is used on the red alert lights on the other consoles and even gives the effect of some of the buttons disappearing when they are off.

Sure, in a previous post I stated that I'm thinking about implementing the red-alert indicator on the helm as a backlit graphic instead of what we see in the film. In the film, it is evident that two small cylindrical red lights were placed on the console just for that one scene, and were not part of any back-lit plexiglass.

Donny what is that white image in the center of the helm image showing your sources for everything?

It's an image of the detail on the aft end of the astrogator I found in the "Bringing It To Life" special feature of TUC: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=236

I will make my images publicly available if you can make a better version and let me have it for my deviant art.

I appreciate the offer, but I'll be fine making my own based on the references I have available.