Dominion War/Aftermath

[nick1983]

Watching 'The Dogs of War' the other day, it got me thinking about how close the end result would have been. Obviously the Cardassians switched sides with about 20 minutes to go! Then I watched 'What You Leave Behind' afterwards and would love to know what were the terms of unconditional surrender in the treaty signed at the end of the episode, I have often speculated.

What are other people's opinions on the end of the war and how much would have been lost for the UFP/Klingon/Romulan alliance in terms of manpower/ships?

 

[nx1701g]

I remember in one of the novels, I believe Warpath, they say that the Cardassian Union has been divided into sectors with each sector being overseen by a different political group.

 

[indolover]

This is my opinion, non-canonical of course:

- the Dominion abides by the Bajor Treaty, and Odo does his best to convince the Founders that not all solids are evil and need to be controlled/exterminated.

- With Martok as head of the Klingons, relations between them and the Federation remain strong.

- Relations with the Romulans improve after the Shinzon incident.

 

[Lateralus]

And a Starbucks on every corner!

 

[Garm Bel Iblis]

Did the Cardassians (what was left of them) greeet the Allies as liberators?

 

[nick1983]

I always thought that cardassia would be divided up a la Berlin after WWII, with the Romulans, Klingons and UFP occupying a sector each. Certainly Nemesis set up the probability that UFP/Romulan relations could be stronger, and obviously the Klingons and UFP would have their relations at an all time high. The Cardassians should have been rebuilt and shown the error of their ways, but allowed to have only say 75% of their former military capacity. What a shame there wasn't a season 8 of DS9 so we could have seen the aftermath.

 

[Lateralus]

...but allowed to have only say 75% of their former military capacity.

75% is mighty generous given the circumstances surrounding the war and Cardassia's imperial history.

 

[Matt4511]

Agreed. Three-quarters of their strength (especially if measured against their Dominion-enhanced high) is much too much.

My personal view is that Cardassia would be largely demilitarized and confined to Cardassia's home system and whatever local systems they colonized. Far flung outposts and bases would be dismantled. Any subject worlds incorporated into the Union would be liberated and perhaps made into Federation protectorates until they could reestablish a functioning civil society and decide their own future direction.

Unlike a lot of others I don't think it likely that the Romulans and Klingons absorbed large tracts of former Union territory. It's far from their home and given the poverty of the Union, I'm not sure how much of their former holdings is worth annexing. That being said, I certainly think that SOME systems might have indeed changed hands.

In short, I think the Union's time as a major geopolitical entity has passed, at least for several generations. And I suspect that the Federation will slowly bind the Union to the UFP economically, making it impossible for them to ever go rogue again.

 

[Withers]

Agreed. Three-quarters of their strength (especially if measured against their Dominion-enhanced high) is much too much.

My personal view is that Cardassia would be largely demilitarized and confined to Cardassia's home system and whatever local systems they colonized. Far flung outposts and bases would be dismantled. Any subject worlds incorporated into the Union would be liberated and perhaps made into Federation protectorates until they could reestablish a functioning civil society and decide their own future direction.

Unlike a lot of others I don't think it likely that the Romulans and Klingons absorbed large tracts of former Union territory. It's far from their home and given the poverty of the Union, I'm not sure how much of their former holdings is worth annexing. That being said, I certainly think that SOME systems might have indeed changed hands.

In short, I think the Union's time as a major geopolitical entity has passed, at least for several generations. And I suspect that the Federation will slowly bind the Union to the UFP economically, making it impossible for them to ever go rogue again.

This is as likely a scenario as I can imagine. The only thing I would add to it is that the Federation would likely need to maintain a heavy presence in the former Cardassian Union specifically so they can't either be conquered by anybody else or attempt another deal where they essentially become a vassal state. A few generations down the line I would imagine Cardassia less like Germany post WWII and more like Japan.

-Withers-​

 

[Lateralus]

I think one of the things that would have made an exploration of the post-war Trekverse so fascinating is a look at how exactly how the Federation would tackle the core-cause of Cardassia's imperialism - the lack of sufficient resources in the Cardassian home system.

More than anything else, it would be priority one to ensure a calm and orderly atmosphere for the rebuilding process and to squelch festering movements of dissent.

Quite the task, especially while having to simultaneously rebuild one's own colonies and fleet.

 

[Matt4511]

The only thing I would add to it is that the Federation would likely need to maintain a heavy presence in the former Cardassian Union specifically so they can't either be conquered by anybody else or attempt another deal where they essentially become a vassal state.

Maybe. Maybe not. We haven't really ever heard of any major powers in the same geographic area as the Union that weren't combatants in the war and thus presumably part of the treaty. If there isn't a major geopolitical entity operating on the former Union's borders, a sudden power grab might not be a major concern.

To clarify one of my own points, I said that the Union would be largely demilitarized. I'm sure it would be allowed to retain enough starships to police its own vastly reduced holdings, probably indeed in conjunction with Federation patrols.

Again, not disagreeing with you, because a heavy Federation presence is possible, but I'd say "heavy" is iffy. It depends on who else is in the neighbourhood and whether or not the remaining Cardassian military would be enough to deter any land grabs. The Federation could maintain only a light, symbolic presence to back up Cardassia's sovereignty over whatever territories it's left with.

To be clear, all of this is some time down the road after the war ends. I'm sure that the Allied smothered the Union with aggressive patrols in the months after the war ended to keep a lid on things, gradually winding down operations to the level I've laid out above.

 

[Withers]

My only thoughts about continuing a military presence inside the former Union address potential fears like other forces from outside the Quadrant attempting an invasion of Cardassia in order to gain a foothold- like (assuming you don't think they were all wiped out in Endgame) the Borg. The last thing any of the major players in the Dominion war would want is for that same area of space to again be an issue for them to deal with so, in my head, it would just be easier to occupy it with Starbases here and there with ships on patrol.

If we eliminated the Borg as an idea and put the idea of other Dominion like powers outside of the AQ attempting to gain territory on the "unlikely" shelf... yeah, then the only real reason I could think of for wasting much time with patrols and the like would be to prevent pirates from disrupting the massive rebuilding effort that would be going for at least a generation post the war.

-Withers-​

 

[nick1983]

Good point that, withers. Perhaps after working together (eventually) to rid the Alpha quadrant of the Dominion, the remaining powers plus perhaps what was left of Cardassia and the Breen etc might form a mutual defence pact. They might stand together against an outside invasion force i.e. the Borg or even if the Dominion decided to play silly buggers and come back through the wormhole in 15 years time.

That would make sense to me, because as Sisko said in 'In the pale Moonlight' you've got 5-6 different political entities all with their own separate political agenda and that would be allowed to carry on whilst ever the Alpha Quadrant is at peace. That would obviously suit the different protagonists.

 

[Matt4511]

Withers, I take your points, but my sense is that if another power were to attempt to make a move on the AQ after the war, the Union might be the last place they'd try it, given how much firepower would have been shifted that way during the war, how much improvement Federation defences would have gone along that border...etc.

On the assumption that the invading power possessed the technological ability to invade from any direction they chose (Unlikely; Canada can't the US through Idaho), I'd probably try to hit the Federation from as far away from the former Union is possible, where most units have probably been drawn down to minimum strength to support the war effort.

Maintaining stability in the Union's ex-territories would obviously be a priority for the Federation. I'm just not sure that a major, semi- or fully permanent military presence there is how they'd go about it.

A few starbases, I can actually see, for sure. But likely not a long-term deployment of fleets and battlegroups much beyond the original Federation border.

 

[DevilEyes]

I always thought that cardassia would be divided up a la Berlin after WWII, with the Romulans, Klingons and UFP occupying a sector each. Certainly Nemesis set up the probability that UFP/Romulan relations could be stronger, and obviously the Klingons and UFP would have their relations at an all time high. The Cardassians should have been rebuilt and shown the error of their ways, but allowed to have only say 75% of their former military capacity. What a shame there wasn't a season 8 of DS9 so we could have seen the aftermath.

Shown the errors of their ways - I assume you mean their imperialistic, totalitarian, war-mongering ways? - by the Klingons and the Romulans? Mmmm...

Can you say "hypocrisy"?

 

[nick1983]

I know where you're coming from DevilEyes, however, my view is that despite the faults of the Romulans and Klingons, neither of them sold the AQ out to the Dominion, ergo they get what they deserve.

 

[DevilEyes]

I know where you're coming from DevilEyes, however, my view is that despite the faults of the Romulans and Klingons, neither of them sold the AQ out to the Dominion, ergo they get what they deserve.

That's beside the point if the idea is to make the Cardassians see the error of their ways, rather than to punish them.

 

[Matt4511]

I know where you're coming from DevilEyes, however, my view is that despite the faults of the Romulans and Klingons, neither of them sold the AQ out to the Dominion, ergo they get what they deserve.

That's beside the point if the idea is to make the Cardassians see the error of their ways, rather than to punish them.

It also doesn't apply to the Romulans, who were content to see the Dominion make massive advances into Federation and Klingon space before they felt personally aggrieved enough by the death of one man to get into it.

The Klingons absolutely have a leg to stand on morally. They went to war with Cardassia for legitimate reasons, fought honourably, and continued to do so in concert with their Allies all the way through to a final victory. They can claim some territory, assuming they have the muscle left to do so, which I doubt.

But the Star Empire? No credibility to portray themselves as devoted heroes of the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[nick1983]

Well perhaps so, perhaps I should have termed it differentley.

 

[Lateralus]

But the Star Empire? No credibility to portray themselves as devoted heroes of the Alpha Quadrant.

And you see, that's where history is fun...

During World War I, the Japanese were a member of the Allies. But, long story short; the allies (the US and Britain in particular) saw Japan as a potential Pacific rival and went out of their way to ensure that Japan, in reward for their war effort (though late-coming and comparatively minimal), reaped very little in the way of advancing their future military capability. It insulted the Japanese people and infuriated the military, and the Japanese stormed out of the post-war conference...

And the whole affair pretty well singularly guaranteed that the next European power to challenge the Allied nations had a very powerful, very angry friend in the Pacific.