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Dollhouse: "Man on the Street" (episode 6)

tharpdevenport

Admiral
Admiral
Supposed to be the first episode, according to Dushku, that isn't fucked with by FOX. Will give my opinions after it's over.


EDIT: I forgot the goddman poll. News sytems won't let me make one for seperate posts.
 
This episode is indeed a noticable improvement over the first five. The level of writing and plot stepped up a level or two.

The whole conversation with the F.B.I. agent and the guy who hired Echo, was good stuff.

Topher still sucks and I'd like to see him get killed off. And the scoring for the show still sucks as well (I'm going to keep asking for a compsoer change until it happens).

The preview for this episode last week sure did make it seem more epic in scope than it was and like there would be a hell of a lot more happening in this episode, but it was just clever editing, that's all. Strill, I found myself more engrossed in this episode and actually -- for the first time -- enjoying watching it.

Maybe Joss thought that twist endign there would be a surprise, but considering his M.O., did anyone actualyl think that Handler was just going to "get away with it"? Come on.

And a touching kind of sad ending with a song that made it work well.

PReview for next week looks like enough to keep me going. Hell, if the episode keep being this much better and improve, I'll probably stick around for the remainder of the S1 run. And I think re-filiming and re-writing of the first five episodes would help the series TREMENDOUSLY. That and whipping the execs at FOX who fucked with it until they bleed. IF only we could tear their skins off like a certain dark witch did in BTVS...
 
It was awesome.

Though I was bummed to see Joe Hearn turn out to be one of the worst of the bad guys.

And, for my money, its Topher's assistant who sent the message to Echo, if there really is an "inside man" workin' against the Dollhouse system.
 
Best episode so far. The earlier ones were vey weak. Not surprised by the "surprise twist", though.
 
It was awesome.

Though I was bummed to see Joe Hearn turn out to be one of the worst of the bad guys.

And, for my money, its Topher's assistant who sent the message to Echo, if there really is an "inside man" workin' against the Dollhouse system.
That was my thought as well but then I realized that
it's Dominic, last week when he shot the cult leader guy and then didn't kill Echo he was clearly doing something. I'm betting he was the one who reprogrammed Echo.
 
What happened to this show? Was this the same show I've been watching for the past five weeks? Not that I'm complaining though, big improvement. If it can keep this up and built upon this, then this show might be going places.


Maybe Joss thought that twist endign there would be a surprise, but considering his M.O., did anyone actualyl think that Handler was just going to "get away with it"? Come on.

Considering this is a Whedon show (and this one was even written by Joss I believe?) I was expecting the neighbour to be killed off. After all, who ever heard of a happy relationship in a Whedon show? Well, there's still time for agony and death in Ballard's real life fantasy I guess. Especially with the neighbour being a doll and all.

What was Echo's official mission when she went to encounter Ballard? To kick the crap out of him and then disappear?

I think it's safe to say that this show is working much better when it spreads its focus over more of its cast, instead of fixing it on an uninteresting new Echo imprint each episode.
 
I thought I'd check back in to see if there's a sudden improvement since FOX can't be blamed for this one, but nope. Same old drivel. The Dollhouse is amateurishly run (Hearn was right - of course that sort of thing was bound to happen, and should have been predicted and prevented) and Agent Ballard should be booted from the FBI for unprofessional behavior (yakking to his neighbor about his case and endangering her life).

This episode provides yet more evidence that the Dollhouse makes no financial sense. The software mogul guy could have hired a dream date from any reasonably upscale escort service to put on the act he required - no brainwashing or added expense was required for that gig. And Ballard holding his own in a fight with Echo proves that there's no point in the Dollhouse's fight training, if they can get just as good a fighter for a government wage. And once again, no brainwashing required. There are plenty of guys willing to do dirty work for a price, and that price would be a whole lot lower than required to support the Dollhouse facility.

The boo hoo story from the software mogul was sappy and trite. Who couldn't guess his wifey would end up killed before she set foot in her new dream house? Shitty writing.

Basically this show is about characters who are idiots and screw-ups and a premise that makes no sense. No more second chances from me, this is total garbage. If this was a "step up" from the episodes I missed, I sure didn't miss anything.
 
The Dollhouse is amateurishly run (Hearn was right - of course that sort of thing was bound to happen, and should have been predicted and prevented)

...Unless the higher powers don't really give a damn about how well the Dollhouses are run, as long as they get to perfect their doll technology (see my comments below about Echo's message to Ballard).

and Agent Ballard should be booted from the FBI for unprofessional behavior (yakking to his neighbor about his case and endangering her life).

If there were no repercussions, I'd agree with you. But seeing as how he was suspended and his neighbor the doll is now a traumatized wreck, I don't see why you're frustrated about the Ballard situation. What I like about Whedon's shows is that, unlike a lot of shows, when the characters screw up, they and the people around them end up paying for it.

This episode provides yet more evidence that the Dollhouse makes no financial sense. The software mogul guy could have hired a dream date from any reasonably upscale escort service to put on the act he required - no brainwashing or added expense was required for that gig. And Ballard holding his own in a fight with Echo proves that there's no point in the Dollhouse's fight training, if they can get just as good a fighter for a government wage. And once again, no brainwashing required. There are plenty of guys willing to do dirty work for a price, and that price would be a whole lot lower than required to support the Dollhouse facility.

They're paying a premium for people who won't remember anything about the job they're hired to do. Kind of hard to find a skilled-to-order amnesiac at government wages.

...Of course, the Dollhouse ends up knowing what happened because the handler's sitting there in a truck monitoring and recording everything, but from what we've seen the clients aren't supposed to know about that. The clients think they're all alone with someone who won't remember any of the depraved, pathetic, embarrassing or illegal things they have them do.

The boo hoo story from the software mogul was sappy and trite. Who couldn't guess his wifey would end up killed before she set foot in her new dream house? Shitty writing.

Yeah, I saw that coming too. But I don't need to be surprised by every conversation in a show. One or two major twists is enough to pique my interest, and the message from Echo qualified as a couple twists on its own.

Basically this show is about characters who are idiots and screw-ups...

Exactly what I thought when I watched Buffy, Angel and Firefly. I liked them anyway. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather watch a show about idiots and screw-ups than something like CSI where you know everyone's at the top of their game and the good guys are going to win 50 minutes into every episode. Maybe this is why all the shows I like get canceled.

...and a premise that makes no sense. No more second chances from me, this is total garbage. If this was a "step up" from the episodes I missed, I sure didn't miss anything.

I laughed a bunch of times tonight - for the first time with this series. "Why don't you get a drink and go beat your chest," in particular, felt like Angel or Firefly-level Whedon dialogue.

And of course the premise doesn't make sense: ironically, that's part of the premise, and that's probably what I find interesting about the show. The whole system is a house of cards that's been unraveling from the start because (a) it's not possible to keep something like that secret, and (b) it apparently isn't possible to just erase humans and treat them like dolls for long. Echo's message hinted that the whole Dollhouse system isn't the point, and the "man on the street" segments trended toward the notion that Dollhouses might be a front for higher (government?) powers that are testing the technology for a much bigger purpose. Dollhouses aren't really services for the rich, they're self-financing laboratories perfecting technologies that tptb plan to use to reshape the world. Not really a spoiler so much as an educated guess: The preview for next week suggests to me they're developing technology to wipe massive numbers of people - maybe everyone on earth. Maybe they even think it's nearing time to reboot humanity.
 
An episode that raises a lot of questions. I couldn't help but think, with this 'sleeper' active with essentially a life of her own, with the revelation of multiple dollhouses around the world, and what that guy said about such technology being the end of humanity as we knew it - how do we know any of these characters (except Ballard, I suppose) aren't dolls? What if Dollhouse employees are themselves actives with long-term imprints, programmed to fulfill certain managerial roles within each Dollhouse? Like Topher, for instance: each Dollhouse would need to find someone with that kind of neurological skill and moral vacuum... but wouldn't be easier to simply copy a template and give each Dollhouse it's own Topher? Man. It looks so pleasant, but scratch the surface and you're in Philip K. Dick nightmare territory.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
I thought I'd check back in to see if there's a sudden improvement since FOX can't be blamed for this one, but nope. Same old drivel. The Dollhouse is amateurishly run (Hearn was right - of course that sort of thing was bound to happen, and should have been predicted and prevented) and Agent Ballard should be booted from the FBI for unprofessional behavior (yakking to his neighbor about his case and endangering her life).

This episode provides yet more evidence that the Dollhouse makes no financial sense. The software mogul guy could have hired a dream date from any reasonably upscale escort service to put on the act he required - no brainwashing or added expense was required for that gig. And Ballard holding his own in a fight with Echo proves that there's no point in the Dollhouse's fight training, if they can get just as good a fighter for a government wage. And once again, no brainwashing required. There are plenty of guys willing to do dirty work for a price, and that price would be a whole lot lower than required to support the Dollhouse facility.

The boo hoo story from the software mogul was sappy and trite. Who couldn't guess his wifey would end up killed before she set foot in her new dream house? Shitty writing.

Basically this show is about characters who are idiots and screw-ups and a premise that makes no sense. No more second chances from me, this is total garbage. If this was a "step up" from the episodes I missed, I sure didn't miss anything.
Ballard is > Bruce Lee, he took out 4 armed thugs after being shot. The fact that he stood up to Echo means little, because Echo wasn't supposed to assassinate him. She was supposed to set him up to shoot the cop (or some equivalent act) so he looks reckless and gets thrown out of his job. Could be she was also supposed to tell him there was someone "inside", but let's wait and see. In any case, she wasn't supposed to just kick his ass, she was supposed to drag out the fight until the right moment, then she played him like toy.

The boo hoo from the software mogul was sappy and trite... unless Echo is his wife, brain damaged from the accident. Let's wait and see.
...Maybe Joss thought that twist endign there would be a surprise, but considering his M.O., did anyone actualyl think that Handler was just going to "get away with it"? Come on.
...
I thought Ballard was going to kill him. Echo warned him, I saw that as part of the setup. I had been kind of thinking earlier, "It would be cool if she were a doll" but I hadn't taken it seriously.

Was this the first episode with "Grr..Argh!" or is just because I was watching a different network? Maybe they cut it for a commercial the other weeks I missed it.
 
This was the first good episode I've seen, and it was very good indeed! I'd seen three of the earlier eps, two of which were poor and one which was mediocre. I almost gave up, but I'd read that this one was supposed to be a game-changer, and it was indeed.

If this is more what the series will turn out to be like, I'll be a happy viewer.
 
there are a bunch of shows that don't make sense, yet we still watch and love them. like ahem, Lost or Heroes.:) amongst many others, for me.

yeah, i watched this episode and noticed the sudden improvement in writing and the main story arc starting to take shape, it was great.

i wonder if we will ever see more buffy/angel-verse actors appear on the show. it would be nice to see nicholas brendan, alexis denisof, charisma carpenter (although i hear shes gonna be in Stallone's Expendables movie) to name a few, on this show.
 
Was it just me, or did this feel like the pilot that should have been?

The "payoff" is that the agent meets Echo, I guess. You needed to develop the chase to make the payoff work.

That said, I think I agree with Temis for the most part. Where Fringe is able to use the 50 minutes wisely, Dollhouse wastes the extra ten minutes on a Patton Oswald monologue. I mean, really? Yeah, Oswald apparently looks like a nerd and maybe he's a Whedon fan who got to be on the show... but you give him what is supposed to be an emotionally moving monologue that's meant to question the morality of the Dollhouse and Ballard's sanity?

Then there was the Sierra rape subplot which was so heavy handed it felt like it was written by a teenager. "Oh I know, I'll have someone rape one of the Dolls! Then he'll say that it's just the same as whoring them out to rich people! I'm so clever!"

Guh. That's writing I expect from the Stargate people... not from the Whedon writing room.

The concept is interesting and the shady morality SHOULD be a fresh perspective... I just think it's in the wrong hands. I may hate myself for saying this, but RDM would probably do a better job with this show.
 
^Is it though? I don't think the pay off was him seeing her, the pay off was finding out there's an insider, and there's more going on then just the selling of fantasies. Which would have been a good hook for the pilot. Rather than leave people saying what's the point? It makes no sense.

I'm not sure it was meant to be clever, just on the nose. Didn't seem like it was trying to subvert the premise of the show, just point out the hypocrisy that's evident there anyway.
 
Yeah, I think the original meeting was the payoff. The second meeting was just an exposition-fest that really didn't mean anything to me. I mean, I'm sure it's important - just like the Blue Hand group with River and all that - but I guess I'm not invested enough in the mythology to find that kind of exposition all that interesting.

As for the rape plot, I got the feeling that they were trying to call attention to the allegory just in case people didn't understand that the Dollhouse was a thinly veiled metaphor for prostitution. But I'm also very cynical I guess. :lol:
 
Yeah, I think the original meeting was the payoff. The second meeting was just an exposition-fest that really didn't mean anything to me. I mean, I'm sure it's important - just like the Blue Hand group with River and all that - but I guess I'm not invested enough in the mythology to find that kind of exposition all that interesting.

As for the rape plot, I got the feeling that they were trying to call attention to the allegory just in case people didn't understand that the Dollhouse was a thinly veiled metaphor for prostitution. But I'm also very cynical I guess. :lol:
Which is why I think it would have worked well in the very first episode, because it would have been a hook to interest you in the bigger story, as it is it a lot of people have already lost interest.

I don't see how people would have missed it, since they've pretty much been saying it's people trafficking since the first episode. Add to that all the man on the street interview stuff in the episode, I think it was fairly obvious.
 
Mostly it's because for Echo, sex doesn't exactly seem to be a part of any of her missions. Yeah, it's only been a few episodes, but most her missions have been about wacky hijinks like being a bodyguard or whatever.
 
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