DOLLHOUSE 2x11-Getting Closer Review,Commentary,Grade,SPOILERS

[DarthPipes]

I'm starting to understand now why Echo doesn't want to bring back Caroline.

Caroline the terorist is a lot more interesting than Caroline the activist.

 

[Captain Craig]

I'm so late back to my own party, what a night!!

EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT

This episode causes one to do some serious reevaluating on nearly everything.

I wasn't surprised to see Madeline/Millie/November being held in D.C. as one of their Dolls. That I could've predicted had I cared to I just knew she wasn't going to be allowed to go her own way when last we saw her at the airport with Ballard. Wonder what her D.C. Doll codename was, but I digress.

When Saunders/Whiskey came into the room with Bennet and started talking in that eeiree calm manner I knew something would happen. I was thinking she was going to smash the in process reconstruction of the Caroline Memory Wedge beyond belief. Maybe also say something mean and spiteful as it related to Topher when he came into the room.
I did not see Saunders going with the clean one tap to Bennet's head!! I've been watching Dollhouse with two other friends this whole season and at that moment all three of us did a verbal *gasp* and fell back into our seats. Our female friend uttered OMG, OMG, OMG till it went to commercial. I agree with another that said that was the most "catch me off guard" kill moment since Adama at the end of BSG S1. The difference is Bennet is done for.

Loved Topher encouraging Ivy to go run, be better, do better, just don't be him. The downside is he unknowingly places her in greater harm once the scenario's of Epitaph 1 unfold. She likely will get remotely wiped and inadvertantly killed. She may still have gotten killed had she stayed but she wouldn't have been wiped randomly one day while listening to the radio.

Adelle's double take on Saunders being there was comical in just the right place and without breaking the pace or mood of what was going on.

I really hope we see more of Tony/Victor & Priya/Sierra. Like Ivy, Echo has unknowingly done them more harm than good if they should choose to take her up on the offer "if you forget how to come back here that's fine also". So much happened in this episode its easy to overlook the possible exit of these two characters. Maybe Joss did that on purpose, wouldn't surprise me.

Dominic is a character we weren't supposed to like in S1. He was the infiltrator trying to bring the DH down. I know I was skewered on my opinion of Dominic but in reality he is one of the good guys. He is NSA and unlike Ballard was undercover with his agency's blessing and not being mocked by collegues like Ballard at the FBI. No wonder shoe and underwear bombers get on planes but I digress. I hope we've not seen the last of Dominic but with two episodes to go who knows.

Then there is Boyd Langton. BOYD, BOYD, BOYD---just Wow! Backing up a minute to the point where, in the flashback, Caroline gets off the elevator and meets Clyde version 2 or maybe 5(he can't recall they swap bodies so much). This is I'm guessing the same Clyde we met in the episode of "The Attic", the Clyde who was being stalked by an assailant inside the Attic(the real power of Rossum). He said his partner put him there in the 90's, right? Says his partner has no doubt swapped bodies a few times. So if Clyde was in the attic then who is the 'Clyde' that Caroline meets? Now back to Boyd.
So Boyd is the real brains of the operation. Who is Boyd? Boyd is obviously just an alias, who is that brain? I can't recall if "attic Clyde" gave the name of his partner. That would be who is in the Boyd body. It also begs then who was Boyd before he bacame a shell for the current inhabitant?

So much to rethink. Can't do it all now.
I do hope, but don't expect, a reappearnce of Alpha. Having him with you would be tricky but if you could manipulate him for long enough he'd make a great ally for your assault on Rossum.

Now let me get to Caroline. In S1 she was portrayed as an idealist who just didn't want animals experimented upon. Now she is all Tim Mcvey and blowing up buildings. Chalk it up to compression of the story but wow Caroline went from "let a few dogs and mice go to blow up a building". Which begs this question, how did Caroline get charges of military grade? You don't just find a dealer like that in the Yellow Pages. How corrupt did Caroline go? Her journey down the rabbit hole was deep. The redeeming thing would be, I suppose, is she wanted to abort once people were found. Caroline wanted to hurt Rossum property, tech etc and not people. Still, I think I like Echo better now actually.

BTW? Where are you getting the pictures, I saw a couple in there I haven't seen...

From a site called DaemonsTV.com, I left out two pics of the 8 they had. One was Bennet and Topher kissing. I felt that was a tad too spoilerish so I left that one out.

Now knowing what happens mere moments after this kiss I'm glad I left it out. Made both events that much more impactful to everyone it seems.

Loved that bit too with the Doll that had just arrived last Tuesday.

Did you catch WHO that cameo was? It took me about 3 seconds. That was Rick Fox, ex-NBA player, Eliza's real life current boyfriend!!


Sorry for the long post hope it gets read.

 

[Plain Simple]

Great episode. It even made me come back to this bbs since a long time to see what the chatter on this one was.

How does Joss do it? We know that every time we see a happy couple on one of his shows someone will drop dead soon, but still it comes as a surprise every time.

I didn't see the Boyd reveal coming either. I was suspecting it to be the original doctor Saunders. Goes to show how much I know.

Terrorist!Caroline felt like a natural extension from what we saw in season 1. Iirc already back then we saw her breaking into labs and trying to set animals free. To get to that point you must already have crossed one line, I can see how some people might cross another one after that. I'm not saying everyone who crosses the first line, crosses the second, but we only need one person. If there were more, the show would have too many leads.

So, the Boyd reveal... retcon or carefully set up?

 

[AvBaur]

So, the Boyd reveal... retcon or carefully set up?

Actually, a couple of minutes before that reveal I was thinking about how we still didn't know anything about Boyd's past and wondering if we're ever going to find out in the remaining episodes. It was always clear to me that there was some kind of secret in his past, which is why I would assume they set this up intentionally.


as for my rating of the episode: Excellent! Maybe the best one yet.

 

[Captain Craig]

Ah, the random drive by "I didn't watch it" POOR voter strikes again. Whatever it takes to get ones jollies I suppose.
That's a discounted vote right there.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

I still say it was a great episode, this leaves a few questions for Epitaph One (the flashbacks) which will probably be answered in "The Hollow Men" and "Epitaph Two: Return". It was a great moment between Topher and Ivy, and clearly the two were finally showing something of affection for one another. Ivy didn't want to leave Topher. You could see it in her eyes, she didn't care about the Dollhouse, it was Topher.

I don't think I could coherently comment on this episode ><

 

[Snaploud]

This is I'm guessing the same Clyde we met in the episode of "The Attic", the Clyde who was being stalked by an assailant inside the Attic(the real power of Rossum). He said his partner put him there in the 90's, right? Says his partner has no doubt swapped bodies a few times. So if Clyde was in the attic then who is the 'Clyde' that Caroline meets?

I assume Boyd made alterations to the imprint for Clyde's copies. Clyde 2.0 (or 5.0) is probably 100% loyal to Boyd.

 

[Bacl]

Excellent episode...but I am disapointed about Boyd. I guess he was the one we'd least suspect, but I always liked who we thought his character was.

Also, does the one black character ALWAYS have to be the traitor/evil person? le sigh. Nothing scarier than an black man in a suit.

 

[Snaploud]

Eh. I always thought Boyd's motivations were weak, so I'm happy they're giving his character a little more depth.

 

[Plain Simple]

Excellent episode...but I am disapointed about Boyd. I guess he was the one we'd least suspect, but I always liked who we thought his character was.

Also, does the one black character ALWAYS have to be the traitor/evil person? le sigh. Nothing scarier than an black man in a suit.

We could still be mistaken in thinking Boyd is the evil guy. All the information we have about his/Rossum's supposed motives comes from others. Others who are morally ambiguous themselves to say the least. Perhaps they're setting us up for a final 180 degrees in the last episode(s).

 

[David cgc]

Well, there is the interesting question of why he'd have Saunders try to keep Bennet from rescuing Caroline's imprint, but then make sure she'd be uploaded back into Echo anyway.

Unless, of course, that's not why Saunders killed Bennet. Maybe she really, really, really, hates Topher.

 

[Trent Roman]

^ Boyd wants something from this experiment; he told Caroline as much, and he wouldn't have been greasing the wheels behind these events otherwise. We just don't know what that is.

Killing Bennett delayed Caroline's reconstitution long enough for the assault to get under way, and disperse the characters such that they wouldn't be present when Caroline fingers Boyd as the serpent's head.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[StarshipDefiant]

Excellent episode...but I am disapointed about Boyd. I guess he was the one we'd least suspect, but I always liked who we thought his character was.

Also, does the one black character ALWAYS have to be the traitor/evil person? le sigh. Nothing scarier than an black man in a suit.

We could still be mistaken in thinking Boyd is the evil guy. All the information we have about his/Rossum's supposed motives comes from others. Others who are morally ambiguous themselves to say the least. Perhaps they're setting us up for a final 180 degrees in the last episode(s).

An excellent point, perhaps quite to the contrary, Boyd is seeing where things are going because of someone/something else within the organization/corporation and wants to do something about it. Then again, maybe he's just an evil fuck with infinite patience and knows that it is inevitable (the end) and is using these people to speed the process.

As for the two above posters, I'd need to rewatch the episode but the impression I had gotten was this wasn't some sort of sleeper personality or anything, Claire despises Topher above all else, maybe killing (literately) a chance at happiness is something she's willing to do. However the idea that this was done to delay Caroline's imprinting is an interesting thought, perhaps there really was a plan there to delay it so that Boyd isn't fingered as the "serpents head" as someone else said.

Makes me wonder how it is that Boyd controlled her and what he did to "activate" her as he had apparently taken off.

 

[Bacl]

Excellent episode...but I am disapointed about Boyd. I guess he was the one we'd least suspect, but I always liked who we thought his character was.

Also, does the one black character ALWAYS have to be the traitor/evil person? le sigh. Nothing scarier than an black man in a suit.

We could still be mistaken in thinking Boyd is the evil guy. All the information we have about his/Rossum's supposed motives comes from others. Others who are morally ambiguous themselves to say the least. Perhaps they're setting us up for a final 180 degrees in the last episode(s).

True. Also, in a show where everyone is under some kind of mind-wipe or mind-control it is easy enough to say...he was under some kind of mind-wipe or mind-control.

 

[Mr Light]

Did Boyd appear in the "Epitaph One" future?

 

[StarshipDefiant]

Did Boyd appear in the "Epitaph One" future?

No, only in some of the flashacks (or just one, I think), which was the scene where he supposedly fled the Dollhouse with a crying Saunders wishing for more time. This scene/flashback/memory is why Joss said in an interview that the memories seen in that context might not be "actuate" Obviously, that moment was an old Whiskey/Saunders memory (perhaps not even from the chair itself, but I haven't watched the episode in a while, so I forget who saw that memory).

 

[DarthPipes]

I'm so late back to my own party, what a night!!

EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT-EXCELLENT

This episode causes one to do some serious reevaluating on nearly everything.

I wasn't surprised to see Madeline/Millie/November being held in D.C. as one of their Dolls. That I could've predicted had I cared to I just knew she wasn't going to be allowed to go her own way when last we saw her at the airport with Ballard. Wonder what her D.C. Doll codename was, but I digress.

When Saunders/Whiskey came into the room with Bennet and started talking in that eeiree calm manner I knew something would happen. I was thinking she was going to smash the in process reconstruction of the Caroline Memory Wedge beyond belief. Maybe also say something mean and spiteful as it related to Topher when he came into the room.
I did not see Saunders going with the clean one tap to Bennet's head!! I've been watching Dollhouse with two other friends this whole season and at that moment all three of us did a verbal *gasp* and fell back into our seats. Our female friend uttered OMG, OMG, OMG till it went to commercial. I agree with another that said that was the most "catch me off guard" kill moment since Adama at the end of BSG S1. The difference is Bennet is done for.

Loved Topher encouraging Ivy to go run, be better, do better, just don't be him. The downside is he unknowingly places her in greater harm once the scenario's of Epitaph 1 unfold. She likely will get remotely wiped and inadvertantly killed. She may still have gotten killed had she stayed but she wouldn't have been wiped randomly one day while listening to the radio.

Adelle's double take on Saunders being there was comical in just the right place and without breaking the pace or mood of what was going on.

I really hope we see more of Tony/Victor & Priya/Sierra. Like Ivy, Echo has unknowingly done them more harm than good if they should choose to take her up on the offer "if you forget how to come back here that's fine also". So much happened in this episode its easy to overlook the possible exit of these two characters. Maybe Joss did that on purpose, wouldn't surprise me.

Dominic is a character we weren't supposed to like in S1. He was the infiltrator trying to bring the DH down. I know I was skewered on my opinion of Dominic but in reality he is one of the good guys. He is NSA and unlike Ballard was undercover with his agency's blessing and not being mocked by collegues like Ballard at the FBI. No wonder shoe and underwear bombers get on planes but I digress. I hope we've not seen the last of Dominic but with two episodes to go who knows.

Then there is Boyd Langton. BOYD, BOYD, BOYD---just Wow! Backing up a minute to the point where, in the flashback, Caroline gets off the elevator and meets Clyde version 2 or maybe 5(he can't recall they swap bodies so much). This is I'm guessing the same Clyde we met in the episode of "The Attic", the Clyde who was being stalked by an assailant inside the Attic(the real power of Rossum). He said his partner put him there in the 90's, right? Says his partner has no doubt swapped bodies a few times. So if Clyde was in the attic then who is the 'Clyde' that Caroline meets? Now back to Boyd.
So Boyd is the real brains of the operation. Who is Boyd? Boyd is obviously just an alias, who is that brain? I can't recall if "attic Clyde" gave the name of his partner. That would be who is in the Boyd body. It also begs then who was Boyd before he bacame a shell for the current inhabitant?

So much to rethink. Can't do it all now.
I do hope, but don't expect, a reappearnce of Alpha. Having him with you would be tricky but if you could manipulate him for long enough he'd make a great ally for your assault on Rossum.

Now let me get to Caroline. In S1 she was portrayed as an idealist who just didn't want animals experimented upon. Now she is all Tim Mcvey and blowing up buildings. Chalk it up to compression of the story but wow Caroline went from "let a few dogs and mice go to blow up a building". Which begs this question, how did Caroline get charges of military grade? You don't just find a dealer like that in the Yellow Pages. How corrupt did Caroline go? Her journey down the rabbit hole was deep. The redeeming thing would be, I suppose, is she wanted to abort once people were found. Caroline wanted to hurt Rossum property, tech etc and not people. Still, I think I like Echo better now actually.

BTW? Where are you getting the pictures, I saw a couple in there I haven't seen...

From a site called DaemonsTV.com, I left out two pics of the 8 they had. One was Bennet and Topher kissing. I felt that was a tad too spoilerish so I left that one out.

Now knowing what happens mere moments after this kiss I'm glad I left it out. Made both events that much more impactful to everyone it seems.

Loved that bit too with the Doll that had just arrived last Tuesday.

Did you catch WHO that cameo was? It took me about 3 seconds. That was Rick Fox, ex-NBA player, Eliza's real life current boyfriend!!


Sorry for the long post hope it gets read.

Did that realize that. Pretty cool.

 

[Samurai8472]

Bullet in the brainpan! SQUISH!

You really can't kill a terminator like that.

 

[Android]

Ah, the random drive by "I didn't watch it" POOR voter strikes again. Whatever it takes to get ones jollies I suppose.
That's a discounted vote right there.

I did watch it, and I stand by my vote.

You could argue that I shouldn't watch television series which I haven't liked in some time, but I've decided to at stay til the end - I wanted to see, if Dollhouse would get better now that they don't have to worry about dragging it all out and can just get on with the story.

In some ways it has - less superfluous B and C storylines, more character development and a lot more arc-derived plot development.

However, Dollhouse is guilty of something I really can't stand in television, movies, books or any other sort of plot-driven fiction: plot-twist for the sake of plot-twist. I might have forgiven them for the strange idea of making Saunders some sleeper assassin, although even that's borderline. What does that make Saunders anyhow? A doll in doll?

But to introduce Boyd as the super-baddie who probably controlled the whole thing from the get-go to advance his own eeeeevil goals is just absurd to me. It comes out of nowhere, is completely unbelievable and is (IMHO) only introduced to create a "WTF?" moment. Very similar to the evil space nazis in Enterprise.

That, coupled with some absolutely atrocious writing (Topher and Bennet), results in a "Poor" vote from me. Maybe not an entirely fair assessment, but nevertheless an subjectively correct one.

And yeah, I know I should stop watching. But it's only two more episodes, I'll survive those as well... ;-)

 

[intrinsical]

It is fairly clear that the writers knew Dollhouse would never be picked up for a third season, so they have opted to do is take whatever storyline that was planned for the entire run and compress it down into a few episodes.

So I pretty much expected the plot development to be dumped on us at the speed of light. In fact, I was just commenting on this via Instant Message to a friend just before Saunders/Whiskey shot Bennet and Boyd was revealed as the mastermind. I immediately IMed her, "Oh my god! Oh my god! Oh my god! The plot just went to warp speed!"

Boyd's reveal literally threw what I knew of the series out of the window. In fact, I still have not fully digested the implications of Boyd being the mastermind. I can sort of understand Rossom the Evil Corp developing high tech brain manipulation tools in order to take over the world. Now that we know Boyd is the mastermind and that Caroline is a critical pawn in his masterplan, I am totally confused.

What does Boyd stand to gain by playing puppetmaster in the Dollhouse, and how does all this fit within Rossom's master plan. Was Boyd trying to prevent Echo from learning his true identity when he got Saunders to shoot Bennet? More importantly, what is Echo's role in all this? I really have no idea.