Does Vulcans Destruction=Accelerated Unification?

[Silversmok3]

Consider,that one of Spock Prime's personal goals was to unify Vulans and Romulans in the original timeline.

In the alternate universe, with the homeworld of Vulcan destroyed would it not be a priority for the remainder of Vulcan society to consider under Spock Prime's lead,reunification with Romulan/Rihannsu society?

Discuss.

 

[M'Sharak]

You may also find some discussion of that question in this thread or this. A forum search will no doubt find others.

 

[Silversmok3]

You may also find some discussion of that question in this thread or this. A forum search will no doubt find others.

Good links-but it doesn't per se adress what my enquiry was.With Vulcan destroyed,the Romulans of this time can hardly say that Vulcan is attempting duplicity.

 

[M'Sharak]

You may also find some discussion of that question in this thread or this. A forum search will no doubt find others.

Good links-but it doesn't per se adress what my enquiry was.With Vulcan destroyed,the Romulans of this time can hardly say that Vulcan is attempting duplicity.

The Romulans have in all times displayed a tendency to be suspicious of anything to do with non-Romulans, and Vulcans were hardly exempt. In certain instances, Romulans were able to overcome or at least temper their suspicion in order to form temporary alliances or negotiate limited treaties.

The destruction of Vulcan is a pretty extreme case, of course, but I wouldn't expect Romulan xenophobia and suspicion to suddenly vanish, either. Could they become receptive to the idea of unification with Vulcans under these circumstances? Possibly, but I think it likely that efforts in that direction would still move slowly and tentatively, at least in the beginning. And accelerated unification? It could happen that way, but I'd think it far from a foregone conclusion.

 

[Jeri]

I can picture Romulans feigning a desire for reunification when their actual goal would be to subsume the remnants of Vulcan culture, while it is weak.

 

[CommanderJMic]

I can picture Romulans feigning a desire for reunification when their actual goal would be to subsume the remnants of Vulcan culture, while it is weak.

I think Jeri's idea would be the most likely outcome. From the Romulan's POV, the only reason to "unite" with the remnants of Vulcan would be to gather information, not to change culturally.

In the original timeline, Spock spent nearly a century making in-roads and "planting seeds," so to speak. His lifespan isn't long enough to repeat the process, and even if he did, he'd be dealing with a society that isn't culturally mature enough to handle the idea of truly uniting with anyone.

 

[Rackon]

I can picture Romulans feigning a desire for reunification when their actual goal would be to subsume the remnants of Vulcan culture, while it is weak.

I think Jeri's idea would be the most likely outcome. From the Romulan's POV, the only reason to "unite" with the remnants of Vulcan would be to gather information, not to change culturally.

In the original timeline, Spock spent nearly a century making in-roads and "planting seeds," so to speak. His lifespan isn't long enough to repeat the process, and even if he did, he'd be dealing with a society that isn't culturally mature enough to handle the idea of truly uniting with anyone.

Hmmm...I'm with y'all.

Romulans respect strength. A greatly diminished Vulcan renders the remnants of that race highly vulnerable IMO.

In TOS timeline there was little love for the long sundered cousins by the Rihannsu. As Commander notes - where is the benefit to Romulus in reuniting? What do they get in return? Technology? Mind techniques? The Rihannsu don't really want that - yet. Given their vast cultural differences in the mid 23rd century, I think reunification would be a hard sell. I would think the Romulans will try to exploit Vulcan's weakness.

I suspect Jeri's scenario is the likely one.

Moreover, while to our minds reunification seems "logical" in this time frame, I'm not sure how the Vulcans themselves will feel about it. There's more than genetics and repopulation at stake. One the Vulcan's top priorities, besides rebuilding the race, will be to preserve and protect their cultural heritage, which, from all we know about them, they will do fiercely.

Perhaps someone here with social history and anthropological knowledge can give us insight into how stressed populations/societies behave under such grave pressures.

I have every faith, of course, that the inherently tough Vulcans will not only survive, but thrive. But their dire situation will provide fertile ground for storytelling, onscreen or in the novels. In fact, I can envision a whole series of new Vulcan fiction: "The Rebuilding". Please some of our authors, what about it???

 

[pookha]

i think especially from the remaining vulcans there would be a lot of resistance to
reunification . there will probably be an even greater desire to keep what is unique about
them.

but while i dont see it being a drastic over night thing i could see this having a great
cultural impact on the romulans.
because all the things the surak vulcans feared about the unbridled passions of the one who rejected him came through the ages to destroy their home planet.

 

[Vicki]

I can picture Romulans feigning a desire for reunification when their actual goal would be to subsume the remnants of Vulcan culture, while it is weak.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust the Romulans.

The destruction of Vulcan finishes any chance of reunification. The surviving Vulcans will want to preserve their own culture.

 

[Thelin]

You guys haven't mentioned it, but do you think the fact Nero was a Romulan would have any bearing on something like this?

To be fair, I think the reasons already given are more than enough to exclude any possibility of legitimate unification. Just curious as to whether or not an argument could be made that since Nero was Romulan there could be some exceptional distrust between Vulcans and Romulans or, perhaps more importantly, between Romulans and just about everybody else.

EDIT: BTW, I love the new avatar, Jeri.

 

[Silversmok3]

I didn't consider that the end of Vulcan was done by ,at some remove,one of it's own citizens due to an instinctually emotional madness.Given that lesson,and what you guys have posted,and consider that reunification is now not only illogical,but impossible.It would not be logical for Vulcan society to unify with a paranoid and unstable culture,to say the least that Romulan culture caused the direct destruction of Vulcan.

 

[pookha]

one thing to keep in mind is that the romulans during this time period seem to have been involved in some unknown conflicts .

CENTURION: We've seen a hundred campaigns together, and still I do not understand you.
...
Our gift to the homeland, another war.
CENTURION: If we are the strong, isn't this the signal for war?
COMMANDER: Must it always be so? How many comrades have we lost in this way?
CENTURION: Our portion, Commander, is obedience.
COMMANDER: Obedience. Duty. Death and more death. Soon even enough for the Praetor's taste

one really wonders if other romulans had grown tired of this like the romulan commander.

also during this time period the romulans seem to be in a period were who you know may count more then what you know and how able you are has more to do with your power and influence.

 

[Jeri]

EDIT: BTW, I love the new avatar, Jeri.

The opening credits to John Adams blew us away; we bought the flag online last year and fly it over July 4th independence holiday now.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I agree with the lot of you before me. I wouldnt trust the Romulans as i think they'd see the Vulcans as weak and perfect prey.

Meanwhile, i would think the Vulcans who were so adamant about their heritage and culture before the destruction of Vulcan, would seriously want to keep their race and culture pure now.

But please correct me if i am wrong, i always had the impression that Vulcans and Romulans DID share some heritage...am i remembering wrong?

 

[Silversmok3]

I agree with the lot of you before me. I wouldnt trust the Romulans as i think they'd see the Vulcans as weak and perfect prey.

Meanwhile, i would think the Vulcans who were so adamant about their heritage and culture before the destruction of Vulcan, would seriously want to keep their race and culture pure now.

But please correct me if i am wrong, i always had the impression that Vulcans and Romulans DID share some heritage...am i remembering wrong?

Yes, and no.
Yes, thousands of years ago there was no such thing as a Romulan-there was just Vulcans, and sometime between that past and 'today' the people known as Romuluans left Vulcan for space due to the unrest of the time on Vulcan.

Unfortunately canon is silent regarding exactly how this all took place-there was a series of books called the Exodus series IIRC that I think do a good job of explaining the challenges and reasons for this exodus, but of course that aint canon, is it?

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^ Thanks Silversmoke, that was what i thought about the shared heritage...

 

[Rackon]

I agree with the lot of you before me. I wouldnt trust the Romulans as i think they'd see the Vulcans as weak and perfect prey.

Meanwhile, i would think the Vulcans who were so adamant about their heritage and culture before the destruction of Vulcan, would seriously want to keep their race and culture pure now.

But please correct me if i am wrong, i always had the impression that Vulcans and Romulans DID share some heritage...am i remembering wrong?

Yes, they two do share a distant mutual heritage.

The ancestors of the Romulan peoples (or "Rihannsu", as they call themselves) were originally Vulcans who rejected the peaceful, unifying, "logical" philosophies of Surak and left Vulcan many centuries past to establish their own colonies among the stars. They remain a Vulcanoid people, but left before the strong development of mind talents and subsequent mind control techniques Vulcans acquired in the intervening years.

The Rihannsu of the TOS and XI timelines are the cultural descendants of these more aggressive, emotional, war-like Vulcans that Surak fought to change before they destroyed themselves in conflict.

Physically, excepting the mind talents, Vulcans and Romulans are nearly identical (forget about those stupid prosthetics on the various TV series over the years - in TOS as in NuTrek they look a lot alike, thank goodness). The Rommies have the incredible strength and endurance of Vulcans, the same physiology - green blood, same organs etc. We know that they can interbreed. There's some dispute whether they go through pon farr. The Romulan language, although differing from native Vulcan, retains much of the original language, even some of the same words and phrases (much like modern English has echoes of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and French).

I wonder what the Empire thinks about Nero and his terrible revenge on Vulcan and the Federation - it will be interesting to see if this is touched on in the next movies. The Klingons are no doubt royally pissed at the Romulans for (as they see it) taking out 47 warbirds - I wonder if they'll be easily convinced Nero was a renegade acting on his own? Will that push the Klingons and the Federation into an earlier alliance? Or will Nero's escapapdes make so much trouble with the Romulan EMpire that they will seek negotiations with both Klingons and the Federation?? I'd really like to know what went on politically in the 25 years since Nero destroyed the Kelvin. It will be interesting to see what role Vulcan will continue to play in the Federation - they will surely re-establish the Vulcan Science Academy on the new world.

No doubt, there will be plenty to keep folks like Sarek busy in the next few years, in both diplomacy and rebuilding the culture.

 

[BenRoethig]

Consider,that one of Spock Prime's personal goals was to unify Vulans and Romulans in the original timeline.

In the alternate universe, with the homeworld of Vulcan destroyed would it not be a priority for the remainder of Vulcan society to consider under Spock Prime's lead,reunification with Romulan/Rihannsu society?

Discuss.

It could also have the exact opposite effect.

 

[Rackon]

Unfortunately canon is silent regarding exactly how this all took place-there was a series of books called the Exodus series IIRC that I think do a good job of explaining the challenges and reasons for this exodus, but of course that aint canon, is it?

Not canon alas, but a very good series, available as an omnibus called Blood WIng Voyages, of Diane Duane's Ri'hanssu series: My Enemy My Ally, Honor Blade, The Romulan Way, Swordhunt, and The Empty Chair. Highly recommeneded. You also get some history of Vulcan and a smidge of the "sundering" in Duane's Spock's Word, which the screenwriter's of XI read and said influenced their script for Star Trek.

You also get a some Romulans in Vulcan's Forge, by Josepha Sherman and Susan Schwartz, and a LOT of Romulus in the same authors' Vulcan's Heart, as that book is about a mission Ambassador Spock takes to Romulus to expedite reunification efforts in the 24th century.

In fact, both in TNG and in the novels Spock sees his goal in the latter part of his life as assisting the two peoples to come together again. This bears directly on XI.

 

[pookha]

really some of the tos romulans could have had ridges considering most of the ones we saw wore those helmets.
and their biology is not totally identical with vulcans.
there was enogh of a difference that enterprise could identify spock in
enterprise incident and beam him out.