Does Star Trek support Ancient Astronaut theory

[Christopher]

i think it's illogical to start calling them vulcans right after first contact (we just don't know enough about them to use that analogy) so 'our' name for them should be more straight forward (hence the ears).

They're from a hot, volcanically active planet. Vulcan was the god of fire. That's why the hypothetical cis-Mercurian planet (which would obviously have been incredibly hot) was called that, so there's precedent.

At least one fan or tie-in work has claimed that the Vulcans' indigenous name for their planet is Ti'Valka'ain, which we would've simplified to Vulcan. But unfortunately Memory Beta and other online sources are bad at giving attributions, so I don't know where that came from. The online Vulcan Language Dictionary proposed Whl'q'n as their name for themselves, while the fan Vulcan Language Institute went with Vulkhansu, presuming that Vulcan was similar to Diane Duane's Rihannsu/Romulan language from the novels.

btw, nobody calls the romans anything but romans (i guess their aggressivenes plays a role here).

The Han Dynasty in China referred to the Roman Empire (which it traded with) as Dàqín, while later Chinese history called it Fulin.

 

[BillJ]

These words are all human (English) translations of alien names. It simply doesn't make sense any other way.

 

[Citiprime]

Anyway, it's entirely natural to expect that humans use our own names for alien worlds instead of theirs, in the same way that English-speakers refer to Deustchland as Germany, Suomi as Finland, Nihon as Japan, Zhonghua as China, Bharat as India, etc. So if an alien planet's or species's name in Trek corresponds to an existing word in Earth mythology or culture, it should be taken as highly likely that the name is a human substitute for whatever the indigenous name is.

Although, would that mean the official name for humans in Andorian is "pink skins" if we follow that logic?

 

[oberth]

They're from a hot, volcanically active planet. Vulcan was the god of fire. That's why the hypothetical cis-Mercurian planet (which would obviously have been incredibly hot) was called that, so there's precedent.

do we know that when we need to make up a name for them right after first contact? i don't think so (afaik they are flying home right after 'live long and prosper').

 

[BillJ]

Although, would that mean the official name for humans in Andorian is "pink skins" if we follow that logic?

I tend to think that is supposed to be a derogatory term.

 

[oberth]

Although, would that mean the official name for humans in Andorian is "pink skins" if we follow that logic?

i have no idea what they call us - pinkskin is definately a racial slur.

These words are all human (English) translations of alien names. It simply doesn't make sense any other way.

if we can (or want to*) translate them at all. if not they are made up.

---

* that translation could start with those who and need 23 words in a proper translation and thusly be unpractical

 

[BillJ]

do we know that when we need to make up a name for them right after first contact? i don't think so (afaik they are flying home right after 'live long and prosper').

Who is to say that the name came right after first contact? We could have called them a lot of different things until the common Vulcan descriptor caught on.

 

[oberth]

Who is to say that the name came right after first contact? We could have called them a lot of different things until the common Vulcan descriptor caught on.

we need a name or do you think those dudes from outer space will work on tv (the news after they showed up not some desilu production)

 

[BillJ]

we need a name or do you think those dudes from outer space will work on tv

That doesn't mean the very first name they used was Vulcan. They are from the Eridani star system (if I remember my Nerdese correctly), they could have simply been called Eridani or some variation, early on. With Vulcan coming into usage later.

Seems silly to me that everything would be set in stone the day after we met them.

 

[oberth]

That doesn't mean the very first name they used was Vulcan. They are from the Eridani star system (if I remember my Nerdese correctly), they could have simply been called Eridani or some variation, early on. With Vulcan coming into usage later.

we don't know that either (after first contact) and afaik that's not even canon (which shouldn't matter the slightest) all we know is they ain't from here and they have strange ears. how about the lynx people?

 

[BillJ]

we don't know that either and afaik that's not even canon (which shouldn't matter the slightest)

You're going to find that I care very little about canon. I tend to use common sense, where applicable.

 

[oberth]

You're going to find that I care very little about canon. I tend to use common sense, where applicable.

you ain't the only one reading it, right? in a pm i wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[BillJ]

you ain't the only one reading it, right?

What does it matter? It is a message board.

 

[Christopher]

do we know that when we need to make up a name for them right after first contact? i don't think so (afaik they are flying home right after 'live long and prosper').

What are you basing "right after first contact" on? The only character who says the word "Vulcans" in First Contact is Worf aboard the Enterprise bridge as the ship leaves. The next canonical event I'm aware of after that date was Cochrane's Princeton commencement address sometime the following year, and the text shown onscreen in ENT: "Regeneration" never mentions the Vulcans by name: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane's_commencement_address

They are from the Eridani star system (if I remember my Nerdese correctly)

"Eridani" (pronounced "eh-ridden-ee") is the possessive form of the constellation name Eridanus, used in the Bayer designations of all of its stars (Alpha Eridani, Beta Eridani, Gamma Eridani, etc.). Vulcan is a planet of 40 Eridani, aka Omicron-2 Eridani or Keid. (This was first proposed by James Blish in his "Tomorrow is Yesterday" adaptation, then widely accepted in fan and tie-in works. It was very strongly implied in Enterprise when it said Vulcan was 16 light-years from Earth, and was finally canonized in a screen graphic in Strange New Worlds.)

 

[oberth]

What are you basing "right after first contact" on? The only character who says the word "Vulcans" in First Contact is Worf aboard the Enterprise bridge as the ship leaves. The next canonical event I'm aware of after that date was Cochrane's Princeton commencement address sometime the following year, and the text shown onscreen in ENT: "Regeneration" never mentions the Vulcans by name: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane's_commencement_address

the newsguys (whoever will do the news then) need a name that probably will stick afterwards and i do believe that a bunch of aliens having a talk with some americans in bozeman, montana will make the news

 

[BillJ]

the newsguys (whoever will do the news then) need a name that probably will stick afterwards and i do believe that a bunch of aliens having a talk with some americans in bozeman, montana will make the news

Is that infrastructure even in place, for worldwide broadcasts at that time? And, just because they made up a name, doesn't mean that name would stick.

Besides, what would you call aliens from another world you know nothing about?

 

[oberth]

Is that infrastructure even in place, for worldwide broadcasts at that time? And, just because they made up a name, doesn't mean that name would stick.

Besides, what would you call aliens from another world you know nothing about?

i would go with their looks -> back to the ears again

 

[BillJ]

i would go with their looks -> back to the ears again

I think 'Visitors' or 'Envoys' would be more than sufficient until we learned who they are, their customs and their world.

 

[Christopher]

the newsguys (whoever will do the news then) need a name that probably will stick afterwards and i do believe that a bunch of aliens having a talk with some americans in bozeman, montana will make the news

So? Why assume that whatever tentative name they use to start with will still be in use decades later? Usages change. For instance, over a year passed between the first news coverage of AIDS and the coinage of that name for the syndrome. The term "UFO" was coined by the Air Force in 1947, but public vernacular favored "flying disc" or "flying saucer" well into the '50s. The visual effect we call "morphing" was introduced in 1986 but wasn't consistently called that until years later; I remember behind-the-scenes materials about the effect in Willow (1988) calling it "splining" after the mathematical principle it was based on.

More to the point, it takes time for a planet or astronomical body to be given an official name, which often supplants whatever initial name was informally used for it. The dwarf planet Eris was originally nicknamed Xena before it was given its official name over a year later.

Alternatively, one possibility is that Human astronomers had already discovered an exoplanet around 40 Eridani and named it Vulcan for whatever reason, so when inhabitants of that planet showed up, they were called the Vulcans by default and it stuck. After all, given how rapidly exoplanet discoveries are happening now, it's very likely that if 40 Eri does have planets, we'll find them well before 2063.

 

[oberth]

I think 'Visitors' or 'Envoys' would be more than sufficient until we learned who they are, their customs and their world.

the vulcans aren't the real problem as it can be explained

• their real name sounds similar and morphed into vulcans (their home planet V'Ulc would do the trick nicely)
• they were here before they had that 'not before warp' rule and had a compound on a certain island off sicily. after the third punic war they decided to leave and burned their compound to the ground and remembering that they called themselves vulcans because they were known as such before

... but the romulans (down to using roman ranks) are just nuts.