Does Quark charge for regular, replicated drinks?

[Crewman6]

^That has been proven wrong on countless occasions. There are many, many episodes which contain references to Starfleet officers paying at Quark's. Off the top of my head, in ARMAGEDDON GAME, Quark, offering a toast to the presumed dead Bashir and O'Brien, says that they were good customers who always paid on time.

Beverly Crusher makes reference to buying some fabric and having it put on her "account" in the very first episode of TNG.

I think the "no money" thing tends to get overstated, though it was obviously a favorite trope of Roddenberry's.

If for no other reason, Starfleet needs to provide walking around money for their personnel who are working outside the Federation.

Regarding Quark's relationship with the station, Quark doesn't pay not because the Federation doesn't have money (and the Bajorans own the station, anyway), but probably because Sisko is being nice to him. Remember in the first episode, Sisko had to convince Quark to stay. While not stated on screen, this seems like a reasonable part of the deal.

Why would Starfleet pay at Quark's instead of using the replimat? For the ambience and social aspect, sure. But maybe Quark has sprung for better replicators, a more extensive menu, etc.

Not all replicators are equal, after all.

 

[Timo]

The evidence need not be considered contradictory. Crusher's purchase in the pilot is an obvious example of Federation-alien interaction, for example, and fully allows for a Federation internal economy that operates without money.

As much as I try, I can't remember our DS9 Starfleeters actually engage in physical paying (like the unfilmed thumbprint thing). And Bashir and O'Brien always seem to pay for "being customers", not for the drinks. As they are major consumers of holodeck time, perhaps that is the service that Quark charges for, whereas the food is just as free at Quark's and at Replimat?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[numbr007]

Timo is right. None of your points, Crewman6, prove any of mine wrong. As I said, Starfleet officers (Crusher, O'Brien, Bashir, anyone) CAN use money, if they need, when interacting with outside cultures. But the producers of DS9 made very careful never to show a Starfleet officer paying Quark for a regular replicated drink. (A cut scene doesn't count -- it was CUT for a reason!)

 

[Wolfslice]

Keep in mind, when you see a Starfleet officer pay for a drink, or meal at quarks, that it might not be a REPLICATED meal or drink. In which case it would be fair to pay, no?

 

[numbr007]

Exactly.

Wolfslice said:
Keep in mind, when you see a Starfleet officer pay for a drink, or meal at quarks, that it might not be a REPLICATED meal or drink. In which case it would be fair to pay, no?

 

[Hofner]

Where's the kitchen where Quark has the non-replicated food prepared?

Robert

 

[numbr007]

Near the bathroom.

 

[Hofner]

numbr007 said:
Near the bathroom.

Heh, I wonder if his chef looks like Riker.

Robert

 

[numbr007]

It's so he can drill a peephole in the wall and watch Leeta changing into her Dabo outfits.

 

[WillCAD]

numbr007 said:
It's so he can drill a peephole in the wall and watch Leeta changing into her Dabo outfits.

I'm sure that Quark has gotten enough serreptitious scans of Leeta (and Dax, and Kira, and Kassidy, and any other attractive female who has entered his bar) to create extrememly accurate holosuite programs, so those old peeping Tom tactics are completely unnessecary.

 

[Crewman6]

Timo said:
The evidence need not be considered contradictory. Crusher's purchase in the pilot is an obvious example of Federation-alien interaction, for example, and fully allows for a Federation internal economy that operates without money.

As much as I try, I can't remember our DS9 Starfleeters actually engage in physical paying (like the unfilmed thumbprint thing). And Bashir and O'Brien always seem to pay for "being customers", not for the drinks. As they are major consumers of holodeck time, perhaps that is the service that Quark charges for, whereas the food is just as free at Quark's and at Replimat?

Timo Saloniemi

I'm afraid this doesn't make much sense. They pay for "being customers", but not actually for what they consume while they're there? So, it's what - just a cover charge for walking in the door? Or an "all you can eat" kind of thing?

There are many references to Starfleet officers PAYING Quark. Period. They aren't being poetic with the phrase - it actually has to mean something, especially to Quark, who wouldn't let freeloaders just sit around his bar for no reason.

Whether the food is replicated or not is almost irrelevant. If you don't want to pay for replicated food, you can just go to your quarters. But the replicators in Quark's are his for all intents and purposes. The bar itself and the stuff in it is an economic asset.

Now, I certainly don't disagree with you or numbr007 about the Federation's interactions with other cultures. There doesn't seem to be a disagreement here. Whether or not they use "money" internally is almost besides the point - they DO use money when interacting with those outside the Federation, whether it's Beverly Crusher in "Farpoint" or the DS9 crew on any given day.

The internal economics of the Federation are deliberately vague. Roddenberry was adamant about saying there was "no money" in the 24th Century, but was very vague about what that meant. The other writers honored that, no matter how goofy-sounding and illogical it might have seemed by never directly contradicting it (and giving us moments like Picard's speech in "First Contact").

But simply saying there's "no money" isn't a very helpful description - it could mean many different things, there seem to be many valid interpretations.

But it does seem clear that Starfleet does interact with other cultures and individuals with a form of money when need be.

Additional, numbr007 , I'm afraid you're incorrect about never seeing Starfleet pay Quark physically.

in "Who Mourns for Morn", O'Brien physically buys a bottle of Yridian ale from Quark at Mourn's wake - thumbscanning one of Quark's padds. Granted, he's not buying it for himself, but I can't see how there would be a difference.

(Time index: 05:18, if you're interested. )

We see the thumbscan constantly in DS9 - it's how you pay for stuff.

 

[DanCPA]

Wolfslice said:
If so that's some kind of rip off!

And where do starfleet officers get Latinum from anyway? Aren't they just working for "self improvement?"

Why is it a rip off? He provides an area of entertainment... And I imagine the officers get a stipend to interact with the civilian personnel

 

[numbr007]

Wow. I NEVER said Starfleet officers don't pay Quark. I said they have never been shown paying for REPLICATED items. I specifically said that they DO pay Quark for non-replicated items.

Seriously, dude -- you need to read more carefully.

And BTW, there is nothing "vague" about there being no money within the Federation. It was said in Star Trek 4, First Contact, the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone," and the DS9 episode "In the Cards."

THERE IS NO MONEY WITHIN THE FEDERATION. (And no, don't start in on your "that can mean different things" line. It can't mean anything other than what it means. No money. Period.)

 

[AdmiralGarak]

WillCAD said:

numbr007 said:
It's so he can drill a peephole in the wall and watch Leeta changing into her Dabo outfits.

I'm sure that Quark has gotten enough serreptitious scans of Leeta (and Dax, and Kira, and Kassidy, and any other attractive female who has entered his bar) to create extrememly accurate holosuite programs, so those old peeping Tom tactics are completely unnessecary.

Not after Kira caught him in "Meridian", he hasn't. A Ferengi knows a bad risk when he sees one.

 

[DanCPA]

AdmiralGarak said:
]Not after Kira caught him in "Meridian", he hasn't. A Ferengi knows a bad risk when he sees one.

I have faith in Quarks resourcefulness... And no doubt someone would be willing to pay VERY top dollar for a Dax or two

 

[Crewman6]

numbr007 said:
Wow. I NEVER said Starfleet officers don't pay Quark. I said they have never been shown paying for REPLICATED items. I specifically said that they DO pay Quark for non-replicated items.

Seriously, dude -- you need to read more carefully.

And BTW, there is nothing "vague" about there being no money within the Federation. It was said in Star Trek 4, First Contact, the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone," and the DS9 episode "In the Cards."

THERE IS NO MONEY WITHIN THE FEDERATION. (And no, don't start in on your "that can mean different things" line. It can't mean anything other than what it means. No money. Period.)

Actually, "no money" CAN mean a lot of different things.

It could mean simply a cashless society, it could mean a barter system (no actual currency), or it could mean that there is literally absolutely no form of economic exchange of any kind - which is a rather absurd notion, even in the Roddenberryesque socialist utopia of modern Trek.

But, you're right, there is a lot of talk and evidence on screen about the lack of money in Trek.

Back to Quark's though. Okay, so we never see anyone pay for any replicated items.

Think about it this way. You're Quark. Your entire live revolves around making a profit.

If you're a Ferengi worth his lobes, are you going to serve FREE replicated food in your establishment simultaneously while charging for non-replicated items?

Um, no. Of course not. You'd be out of business in a week. Quark isn't an idiot.

We barely ever see anyone pay for anything on Trek. Or on "Cheers" for that matter.

We also never see action heroes replacing their gun clips during the heat of battle.

Some things just slow down the flow of the story and aren't essential details.

However, given the massive amount of verbal references to people, both Starfleet and non, paying Quark and the massive number of times we see Quark serving replicated items and the fact that Quark doesn't immediately go out of business, there is only one logical conclusion to draw - Quark charges for replicated items.

 

[numbr007]

Yep. He charges non-Federation personnel.

Crewman6 said:
Quark serving replicated items and the fact that Quark doesn't immediately go out of business, there is only one logical conclusion to draw - Quark charges for replicated items.

 

[Crewman6]

numbr007 said:
Yep. He charges non-Federation personnel.

Crewman6 said:
Quark serving replicated items and the fact that Quark doesn't immediately go out of business, there is only one logical conclusion to draw - Quark charges for replicated items.

Okay, not trying to be snarky, but now I legitimately have no idea what your argument is.

Youv'e agreed that:

1) Quark serves both replicated and non-replicated items
2) Quark charges for both.
3) Non Starfleet folks pay for both kinds of products
4) Starfleet folks DO pay (despite all the talk about having "no money" in the UFP)......but only for non-replicated items?

Huh? Where and why do you draw that distinction? It simply makes no sense. Why would EVERYONE but Starfleet pay for replicated items?

Why would Starfleet pay for everything BUT replicated items?

There's just no reason, no evidence - nothing - to draw this conclusion from.

It's made up out of thin air.

Please help me understand your position....(so I can again refute it. )

 

[numbr007]

No thanks.

 

[Timo]

Why would EVERYONE but Starfleet pay for replicated items?

That's a fairly easy position to defend: Starfleet people are special people, benefiting from the special relationship between their boss and Quark.

Why would Starfleet pay for everything BUT replicated items?

For the same reason I today pay for electricity and communications, but not for example for cold water and education? Because the former still cost money for the provider, while the latter is either so dirt cheap that there's no point in charging by liters of water consumed (a fixed sum for the month is more practical) or considered so vital by the society that it is funded by tax money.

Many things today are basically on the verge of becoming free of cost. Public transportation, telephone services, recorded music, all benefit from recent technology breakthroughs that make it profitable for the providers to offer them as sheer charity, against abstract gains such as sales boost, or against concrete if minimal gains such as tax funds. And replicated items of basic sustenance would definitely teeter on that limit in the late 24th century if not earlier still. Plus they would almost certainly enjoy the blessing of Federation policies and ethics as something that should be denied nobody, regardless of his or her ability to provide compensation.

Of course, it might be that only Starfleeters and other UFP citizens would enjoy from the "government subsidies" that make replicated items free for them. Bajor's economy would certainly not yet be integrated to the UFP one, nor would Bajor enjoy such replication resources as to support such a charitable economy itself.

Timo Saloniemi