Does Kirk Contribute to the Transporter Accident in TMP?

[Captrek]

It never occurred to me that Kirk's presence in Engineering contributed to the accident.

I have always felt that there's something that Kirk did to contribute to the accident, but it may have been necessary. Sonak and Scotty and both told him that the Enterprise could not be ready in less than 20 hours, and he ordered that the 20-hour job be completed in 12 hours no matter what it took. When you force people to take shortcuts, accidents will happen.

The wormhole was also Kirk's fault, in the same sense. It's debatable whether Kirk was right or wrong to push so hard, but that pushing contributed to the wormhole and possibly to the transporter accident.

 

[pfontaine2]

I've always been amused by Rand's look when Kirk tells her it's not her fault. I've always interpreted it as a private "you're damn right it wasn't my fault and I don't need you patronizing me either".

Another thing, when McCoy beams up he asks permission to come on board. A female voice says "Granted". Was that supposed to be Rand's voice? It almost sounds like an automatic response.

Finally, I would have also loved to see McCoy acknowledge that Rand is in the transporter room instead of just waking about complaining about engineers. He probably hasn't seen her in years!

 

[Green Shirt]

Kirk doesn't date older women (she's vice-admiral).

Except for Ruth from Shore Leave, a good 10-15 years older than he.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Finally, I would have also loved to see McCoy acknowledge that Rand is in the transporter room instead of just waking about complaining about engineers. He probably hasn't seen her in years!

Very good observation!

If there is one major issue I'm having with TMP it's that our protagonists act rather like automatons than living human beings.

Bob

 

[DonIago]

Hey, if you're going to take on a giant digitizing automaton, who better to engage it than a ship of automatons?

 

[Captrek]

Finally, I would have also loved to see McCoy acknowledge that Rand is in the transporter room instead of just waking about complaining about engineers. He probably hasn't seen her in years!

Very good observation!

If there is one major issue I'm having with TMP it's that our protagonists act rather like automatons than living human beings.

Bob

Yes, it has been years.

Maybe he doesn't recognize her.

 

[Maurice]

It's a ridiculous and false statement to say the crew act like automatons. Kirk is initially testy and obsessed. Bones is curmudgeonly as ever. Decker is frustrated, Spock is the only one who's "automaton" like, but that's part of the story. Sure, at first the crew don't act like they did on the series, but getting back to that place is rather the point, no?

 

[Amaris]

IIRC the novelization even notes that Kirk's caught off-guard by the transporter controls having been reconfigured. He's not explicitly blamed for the situation, but there's a suggestion that he didn't make things any better either.

Please let's not bring the novel into this. Then you have to make Kirk's girlfriend Lori (Lori? Really?) one of the victims, which puts a whole new slant on who is responsible for her death. (Perhaps he secretly wanted her dead, and poor Sonak was just collateral damage.)

The world is a poorer place for novelist Roddenberry not having had a decent editor to show him, gently, why a super-overabundance of words in italics is not a good idea.

You be quiet. I need to know about Kirk's burning loins!

 

[Robert Comsol]

It's a ridiculous and false statement to say the crew act like automatons.

Oh my goodness, since when is an opinion a "false statement"?
Regardless how much I love and cherish TMP, the acting is rather "stiff" and the long looks, pauses and gestures (sometimes close to pathetic) were probably supposed to say more than a thousand words but weren't really successful in doing so, in my opinion.

In contrast, and despite its many plotholes, ST VI-TUC delivers much better and credible character interactions in the tradition of TOS, in my opinion.

Bob

 

[trevanian]

I don't think the rampant retro-prejudices evinced in TUC resemble much of TOS at all, except for when the crew get possessed by alien energy beings or they get some bad apple on board. You can find exceptions to this, but in the main, Kirk & co don't regress to our level all that often without something weird triggering it.

I finally settled in with being able to enjoy TUC after a long spell of despising it, but it is only in the same way that I could enjoy a Bantam or Pocket novel that took enormous liberties with what we'd seen on TV ... oh, they're really THAT military now? I'm thinking of a bad Bantam novel where Kirk is annoyed by an underling and Kirk demands he salute him. That's Elaan-level assholiness.

 

[Captrek]

You know where Nicholas Meyer blows most other directors out of the water?

Commentary tracks. Even if you're not normally a fan of commentary tracks, check out Meyer's on the TWOK and TUC BDs.

 

[DonIago]

In TOS Kirk's son hadn't been murdered by Klingons.

 

[trevanian]

^That's a crutch. I think Kirk would have been more torn up by, say, Ensign Garrovick's death than he would David's (something they did in the novels as a throwaway during that one idiot's reign, which pissed me off more than just about anything else in any novel), because he doesn't know this kid from Adam and David doesn't really show him a whole helluva lot in the time they have.

You can hang any particular kind of character change around these family conventions (Spock's half-brother is a perfect example), but that doesn't make them any more legitimate to me. In TOS, it's the family you choose to be with that usually trumps the sperm family, anyway. Band o' Bros & Sis', y'know?

 

[Captrek]

trevanian, do you have children?

 

[DonIago]

Really. If anything I'd say the loss of a child you had just begun to build bridges with might be even more devastating than the loss of one you'd known your entire life.

Hell, if you don't think Kirk's devastated by David's death, I recommend rewatching the scene in TSFS. One of Shatner's better performances IMO.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

It never occurred to me that Kirk's presence in Engineering contributed to the accident.

I have always felt that there's something that Kirk did to contribute to the accident, but it may have been necessary. Sonak and Scotty and both told him that the Enterprise could not be ready in less than 20 hours, and he ordered that the 20-hour job be completed in 12 hours no matter what it took. When you force people to take shortcuts, accidents will happen.

The wormhole was also Kirk's fault, in the same sense. It's debatable whether Kirk was right or wrong to push so hard, but that pushing contributed to the wormhole and possibly to the transporter accident.

Looked at that way, it's Vejur's fault. A ship had to investigate and try to stop it before it reached Earth. The Enterprise was the the only ship that could. Ready or not, she HAD to launch in twelve hours.

 

[DonIago]

Which means it's actually NASA's fault for dispatching Voyager 6 in the first place...

 

[Captrek]

Which means it's actually Dwight Eisenhower's fault for establishing NASA...

Which means it's actually Kirk's fault for letting Edith Keeler die...

 

[Pauln6]

Finally, I would have also loved to see McCoy acknowledge that Rand is in the transporter room instead of just waking about complaining about engineers. He probably hasn't seen her in years!

Very good observation!

If there is one major issue I'm having with TMP it's that our protagonists act rather like automatons than living human beings.

Bob

Yes, it has been years.

Maybe he doesn't recognize her.

Well, assuming she was only around for 6 months in year 2 of the 5 year mission, it would have been 6 years. Plus they didn't put soft-glow on the transporter booth perspex.

I wish they'd done more to underscore that Janice was back. Maybe a little scene like her cameo in STIII with her and Kirk or something. I was happy with DiFalco, and I understand that Shatner was probably keen to get his wife in the movie, but giving Janice another scene would have been better IMO.

I'll admit, I'm a fan and I didn't even realise it was her until my second viewing (albeit I was only about 10 when I saw it).

 

[DonIago]

Which means it's actually Dwight Eisenhower's fault for establishing NASA...

Which means it's actually Kirk's fault for letting Edith Keeler die...

It was Kirk's fault, and it will be again...that's the beauty of it!