Poll Does helping Mirror Universe Terrans violate the Prime Directive?

[marsh8472]

I was watching DS9 episode "Shattered Mirror" where the Terran rebels built another Defiant which did not seem to bother Sisko. Kirk went out of his way to influence Spock at the end of the "Mirror, Mirror" episode to reform the Terran Empire. It got me thinking about whether interfering with the events of the mirror universe, specifically with Terran Rebels/Empire, is a violation of the prime directive or not. The federation has influenced the Terrans in virtually every mirror universe episode.

Sisko did say this in "Through the Looking Glass":
SISKO: I'm sorry, but you're going to have to find someone else. I don't belong here and I'm not about to interfere with events going on in this universe.

insinuating that it may be a violation to help Terrans.

But in episode "Masterpiece Society" they said interring with human cultures is not a violation:
PICARD: If we ever needed reminding of the importance of the Prime Directive, it is now.
RIKER: The Prime Directive doesn't apply. They're human.

In "Masterpiece Society" they disregarded the Prime Directive to save a human society that was isolated from the federation kind of like the way the Terrans in the mirror universe are isolated from the humans in the Prime universe. Or trying to relocate the Indians in episode "Journey's End". Since they're both cases of humans isolated from the federation maybe the prime directive does not apply in the same sense. So maybe by birthright they do have a say in how the Terran culture of the mirror universe counter-parts develop?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Terrans of the mirror universe are warp capable, and obviously aware of other intelligent species in the galaxy, so I'm not sure how the Prime Directive would apply to them.

Besides, they simply deserve to be helped. The Klingon/Cardassian Alliance (and the Empire which preceded them) was wrong; the Terrans were right. It's as simple as that.

 

[marsh8472]

The Terrans of the mirror universe are warp capable, and obviously aware of other intelligent species in the galaxy, so I'm not sure how the Prime Directive would apply to them.

Besides, they simply deserve to be helped. The Klingon/Cardassian Alliance (and the Empire which preceded them) was wrong; the Terrans were right. It's as simple as that.

The prime directive still applies with warp capable societies though

DS9 "The Circle"
CHEKOTE [on monitor]: Damn. That's a hell of a turn. How can these Bajorans get in bed with the Cardassians?
SISKO: They don't even know the Cardassians are involved.
CHEKOTE [on monitor]: Then you're saying it's a genuine political revolution internal to Bajor.
SISKO: Supported by the Cardassians.
CHEKOTE [on monitor]: But internal to Bajor. The Cardassians might involve themselves in other people's civil wars, but we don't. The Prime Directive applies, Ben.

VOY "Alliances"
HOGAN: I'd give them what they want. Give them the replicators and the transporters and whatever else it is they're after.
JANEWAY: I'm sure you realise that would be a violation of the Prime
HOGAN: I know all about the Prime Directive, but you know what? The Federation is seventy thousand light years away. What does it matter what these people do to each other with our technology.

TNG "Redemption"
WORF: Captain, we must intervene. The Duras family is corrupt and hungry for power with no sense of honour or loyalty. They represent a grave threat to the security of the Federation. Captain, you and I know that they have conspired with Romulans in the past. If they should be victors in this war, they will surely form a new Klingon-Romulan alliance. That would represent a fundamental shift of power in this quadrant. Starfleet must support Gowron. It is in the interests of both the Federation and the Empire. I beg you, support us in our cause.
PICARD: Mister Worf, I don't have to lecture you on the principle of non interference. As Starfleet officers, we have all sworn an oath to uphold that principle whatever our personal feelings. I'm sorry. I must refuse your request.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Terrans of the mirror universe are warp capable, and obviously aware of other intelligent species in the galaxy, so I'm not sure how the Prime Directive would apply to them.

Besides, they simply deserve to be helped. The Klingon/Cardassian Alliance (and the Empire which preceded them) was wrong; the Terrans were right. It's as simple as that.

What on earth makes them any more worthy of help than, say, the people from "Pen Pals" or the Nibiru - both of whom would be dead if the Prime Directive were enforced strictly.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Yup. It's General Order 1, not General Suggestion 1.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, it's breaking the Prime Directive, though it would appear Starfleet doesn't seem to care what its personnel do over there, unless they rescue the Emperor from being assassinated and bring them back to Prime. Then that gets classified for some reason.

I'd say the only questionable actions are Kirk urging Mirror Spock to start a revolution and Sisko helping Smiley O'Brien build their own Defiant. Kirk can probably use the defense that he only suggested things and Mirror Spock took it from there. While Sisko, I guess could claim the Rebels were already 99% of the way on their own anyway.

 

[The Old Mixer]

though it would appear Starfleet doesn't seem to care what its personnel do over there

What happens in the Mirror Universe stays in the Mirror Universe.

 

[lawman]

The prime directive still applies with warp capable societies though.

I think the weight of the evidence suggests otherwise. The Prime Directive is unfortunately rather easy (for writers, and hence characters) to distort and misinterpret, since the actual wording of it has never been established. However, I'm inclined to think that any story in which someone claims that it prevents interference with a society that's a technological peer (or for that matter with a natural disaster or other extinction event) represents an instance of someone misunderstanding what the Prime Directive is about (or deliberately using it as a CYA excuse to avoid taking action).

The PD was never a declaration of complete neutrality about cultural or political outcomes, after all — the Federation certainly holds key values that it can and does promote — much less a declaration of belief in "fate" and letting the chips fall where they may. It was always about avoiding imperialism — the kind of behavior that led real-life expansionist powers like, say, the British or the Americans, or Trekverse powers like the Klingons, to take advantage of weaker societies as means to their own ends.

There may, of course, be treaty obligations or other strategic or political reasons not to get involved with the affairs of the Terran Empire (or the Bajorans or the Klingons). But the Prime Directive shouldn't be seen as one of those reasons.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In refusing to back Gowron during the Klingon civil war, Picard chose to use an overly (and unnecessarily) strict interpretation of the PD. As per the treaty of alliance, Starfleet is legally able - indeed, obligated - to assist the Klingons if they require it, and the reverse also applies. So if Picard had chose to intervene on Gowron's behalf, he would be in the clear.

The simple fact is, intervention is allowed if it is requested. The Klingons asked for help, so Picard could have given it. Same goes for the Terrans.

And as I said, the Terrans deserved assistance anyway. The K/C Alliance is obviously in the wrong. So anyone who fights them is OK in my book.

 

[The Wormhole]

The K/C Alliance is obviously in the wrong.

The Mirror Bajorans seemed to prefer them over the Terran Empire.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Mirror Bajorans seemed to prefer them over the Terran Empire.

That's because they didn't know any better.

And it seems obvious that the K/C Alliance was just exploiting the Bajorans for their own ends. I mean, these are Klingons and Cardassians we're talking about here - that's simply what they do. Bajor was, in the end, just as much a slave to the Alliance as they were to the Terran Empire.

To put it another way: MU Bajor was to the Alliance as RU Cardassia was to the Dominion.

 

[Deks]

The terrans in Mirror Universe were warp capable... however, the Prime Directive still applies when it comes to meddling into internal affairs of other species that are NOT pare of the Federation.

The Terrans from MU were not part of the Federation... and just because they are humans, doesn't necessarily exclude them from PD like Prime Timeline Humans seem to be (in the regular universe though, Human civilians which are part of the Federation aren't bound by the Prime Directive - though majority do appear to have the sensibility/education to not necessarily interfere pretty much like SF officers wouldn't - although it seems like a loophole... as a SF officer you are bound by the prime directive, and yet as a civilian who is a Federation citizen, you are not?).

At any rate, Sisko probably disregarded the PD in the MU due to him initially being kidnapped and not having full control over the circumstances (also, Jake was 'kidnapped', or at least held by Smiley under the condition Sisko helps Terrans complete the Defiant before the Regent's ship arrives).
You would think SF would have invented some kind of a subdermal gadget that would send a subspace signal to the proper quantum reality and trigger the transporters to bring kidnapped people back, or interface with MU transporter to do the same.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Helping post-warp people who ask for help directly is not a violation of the prime directive, but giving assistance in a war or internal conflict is.

There's some areas where it's not clear, for example in Redemption the influence of a third party is what made it okay to intervene in a ally's internal affairs. Also if one of the two sides attacks the Federation, they become a party in the conflict, though in MU the side that attacked the Federation is not the one they fought against.

 

[Paul Weaver]

You would think SF would have invented some kind of a subdermal gadget that would send a subspace signal to the proper quantum reality and trigger the transporters to bring kidnapped people back, or interface with MU transporter to do the same.

Maybe they could invent subdermal communicators on a regular basis first

 

[Deks]

Maybe they could invent subdermal communicators on a regular basis first

We've seen them use subdermal communicators on several occasions (usually when they go on covert missions) since TNG.
Thing is, most of this technology would be by 24th century fully embedded in clothing most likely on a molecular level... or at the very least, not 'visible' at all under most circumstances.

 

[Tenacity]

prime directive would not be appicible. but there easily could be other starfleet directives and federation requirements that would come into play

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Alternate universe where the Prime Directive doesn't exist and they're helping humans who are warp-capable. I'd say they're good.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I suppose that Sisko could always argue that the original PD violation was Kirk's, though. And judging from episodes like "A Piece of the Action," "Bread and Circuses," and "The Omega Glory," it seems that once a planet or a society has already been messed with, all bets are off.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I suppose that Sisko could always argue that the original PD violation was Kirk's, though.

And perhaps not even then. The Empire was already aware of the Federation at that point, thanks to MU Spock's interactions with the regular Enterprise crew. And Spock was already well aware that the Empire was destined to collapse, anyway. Kirk gave him advice, but didn't actively interfere in anything.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

When it was first encountered, Kirk violated the Prime Directive by influencing Spock, who in turn ended up destroying the Empire and giving rise to the Alliance. It's all the proof you need not to mess with the development of other civilisations, there is no way of knowing what might happen once you do. Leave them alone, if they were meant to overcome adversary and thrive then they will find a way, if not that is nature and there's no way you can fight such a force.