Come on, you weren't on the edge of your seat wondering if Picard would be able to find the dillweed behind the oregano?
Does GENS succeed or fail as an introduction to TNG for new viewers?
- Thread starter Lance
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Even Darth Vadar?
I actually know what you mean. It's not just names but characters sometimes in the same movie. Every old war movie always ends up being a bunch of white guys who end up looking the same in part because they are also all wearing the exact some clothes. Then you have "Game of Thrones." Get the actors mixed up, the names and even the storylines since whne i was watching it seems like you have 20 different stories happening at once. Jason
They did have losses but I think in the end the movie does have the sense that there will soon be another ship.
Not sure how you read those moments as “drama”, as they’re going for something more obviously offbeat and humorous. The failure for me comes down to execution. Having the two legends Kirk and Picard together for the first time and that they’re cooking eggs would have been a wonderfully subversive moment, going against expectations and delivering something surprisingly fun. I don’t think David Carson was up to the task as far as those moments go. He was reliable in delivering the larger budget episodes with big drama and action like “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and “Emissary”, which aren’t remembered for attempts at offbeat humor. Maybe if Leonard Nimoy worked with the material he would have timed it better.
In the end, what I think GENERATIONS needed more than anything was more time after TNG’s finale. In retrospect, jumping straight to a film production only a week later was kind of insane. Paramount should not have rushed it.
You know, Kirk says "second shelf to the left" and Picard actually reaches to the right.Come on, you weren't on the edge of your seat wondering if Picard would be able to find the dillweed behind the oregano?
Paramount obviously didn't want any extra gap between movies than the usual 2-3y and the movie suffered as a result.
Those two sequences, including the Data life forms melody* wasn't humorous but embarrassing to the characters. They're off base on what I loved about our heroes, I don't mind laughing with them than laughing at them, developing scenes which strengthen them is what I demand. These kinds of dumb scenes I found particularly on Days of our Lives and The Bold and the Beautiful when product companies wanted to promote a new item for their brand. The characters are placed in an area where they would never be, wearing outfits they would never wear or hygiene products they wouldn't use based on what was established, but the product is from a major sponsor so the producers have to make it work.
The Nexus scenes makes Picard weak, this should've been his moment to handle the situation on his own and not asking Guinan or Kirk to comeback with him. I wouldn't have minded Kirk happen to be on the planet Veridian stranded and made attempts to survive but him having some fantasy of about a woman I knew nothing about didn't make any sense to me. I mean Ruth would've been a lovely addition to those moments for me because I remember how fawn Kirk was for her, what I got was a silhouetted person on a horse--it could've been Caitlin Jenner for all I cared. I wanted character motivated action than two old guys chatting about nothing, they're better than that and deserved a moment of survival... something like "Darmak", but not together, just an individual event where Picard would have a low moment and over come it to become a better man.
*The Data life forms scene was a rant and not part of the Soap Opera example.
Amongst the other stuff people have mentioned, I'm still baffled that the TNG opens with a strong focus on Worf as if he's a major character (and considering the secondary villains are his personal arch enemies he should have had a good subplot in there), but he then proceeds to do pretty much nothing to make him out from an extra for the rest of the film.
Never mind that Worf’s promotion had nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. The scene exists solely as a motivator for Data to install the emotion chip.
Absolutely. It's another example of the people in charge assuming audience familiarity with the concept and characters, rather than taking into account that there may be people out there for whom this is their first introduction to TNG. As has been noted earlier in the thread, in concept the original idea of seeing the Enterprise ride in as cavalry to the solar observatory, chasing away invading Romulans, would've been a perfect way to show to a new audience the TNG crew contributing all of the unique things they each bring to the table as characters. Instead, we got Jeri Taylor's "light-hearted hijinks" memo writ large.
Excellent discussions, gentlemen.
Here's the thing: I can't really fault Paramount for not making GEN 'newbie-friendly,' because I'm pretty sure that wasn't their intention. TNG had been on the air for seven years and had just ended immediately before the film, so they obviously felt they didn't need to reintroduce the characters again. Whether that was a smart idea or not is another story. Obviously from the point of view of the lady I went to see it with, it was a detriment.
However, what I can fault Paramount for was their silly 'laundry list' of things they wanted for the film: Kirk and Picard meeting; Kirk's death; the Enterprise-D's destruction, humorous subplot for Data, etc. Add to the mix a really bad segue from the 23rd century to the 24th, Jeri Taylor's suggestions, Braga and Berman's need for the saucer crash and a replacement ship for the D, and the ham-fisted way in which Kirk and Picard meet, we end up with a hodgepodge of a film that leaves things very unsatisfied.
As much as I actually like the saucer crash sequence and think it still holds up today over twenty years later and really shows the quality of work you can get out of models, I do think it was a mistake to destroy the Enterprise D. When people think of TNG, they think of the Enterprise D, and IMO, it could have helped the other movies to see the crew on a familiar ship, as opposed to what we got where they are on a ship that the audience never really gets to develop an affinity for other than its "kewl look."
I realize the decision was made for merchandising reasons, as a new Enterprise means new toys and model kits. But I still think it was a mistake.
I realize the decision was made for merchandising reasons, as a new Enterprise means new toys and model kits. But I still think it was a mistake.
The thing about the crash scene was that they still could have accomplished it without destroying the ship. They just needed Picard and Kirk to leave the Nexus and go back far enough in time to where they appear on the Enterprise's bridge before Lursa and Be'tor's attack (only in this scenario, the Duras sisters originally did destroy the Enterprise without getting themselves killed, so when K & P return, Picard takes command of the ship, destroys the BoP, and then K & P beam down to the planet to stop Soran.) The ship is fine and no saucer separation is needed the second time.
It's telling to me, IMHO, that even the most recent Blu Ray compilation of the TNG movies features 1701-D in the cover art, not 1701-E, presumably because the television version of the TNG Enterprise is more iconic and identifiable.
This despite three quarters of the movies in the set not featuring the Enterprise-D.
I've also long wondered if seeing the familiar Enterprise sets being gradually corrupted and Borgified in First Contact would've made for a greater emotional resonance, rather than seeing this brand new ship we have no real attachment to as an audience yet.
Oh, damn!t's telling to me, IMHO, that even the most recent Blu Ray compilation of the TNG movies features 1701-D in the cover art, not 1701-E, presumably because the television version of the TNG Enterprise is more iconic and identifiable.
That's pretty funny.I also like that Insurrection is the only TNG movie not to be represented on that cover. TFF appears to be the only TOS movie not represented on its cover. Just coincidence, I'm sure.
On that note, I will say First Contact is the worst movie to introduce a new ship in, given the majority of the movie the ship's sets are seen either in red-tinted emergency lighting, or transformed by the Borg.
While this comment is probably more appropriate for the "TNG Characters Kept in Statis" thread, I want to say that it has always irritated me that First Contact really doesn't introduce the Enterprise-E at all. Heck, even Generations does more to introduce the -B than that film does the -D or First Contact the -E. The 24th-century hero ships are treated as locations, not as characters in their own right in the films.
Maybe, the Klingon BoP next to the 1701-A, not the 1701-Refit as in SFS, represents TFF.Oh, damn!
I also like that Insurrection is the only TNG movie not to be represented on that cover. TFF appears to be the only TOS movie not represented on its cover. Just coincidence, I'm sure.
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Not only that, I would've liked or appreciated TMP type treatment of the 1701-D, simply modifying the Galaxy Class design for more of a cinematic presence than that ugly looking thing called 1701-E.
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