Does E=MC^2 Exist in Universal Constant Prior to the Big Bang?

[iguana_tonante]

Of course, Arp's data are from the 60s, and his arguments have been thoroughly destroyed by almost 40 years of observations.

Wow, he found "hundreds" of peculiar objects, that must be something, right? Too bad that in just one of my works, I analyzed over 15,000 galaxies with their redshifts. And it's just one study. About one tiny slice of the observable universe. So Arp's catalog is, uhm, about 2% of mine. Mhm, I win?

His "evidences" are a bunch of pictures of peculiar objects, and "common sense" arguments supported by very flimsy maths. But let's ignore that, it's all because of the evil astronomical conspiracy.

You guys really fail to realize the bulk of evidences we have to support the current cosmological model. Is it perfect? Of course not. But giving credence to crank theories is not the answer to any perceived or actual flaw in the model.

 

[gturner]

And that brings up another issue I have with astrophysicists, on top of their insanely high salaries that let them buy multi-billion dollar telescopes as a hobby.

You looked at 15,000 galaxies, each probably filled with hundreds of technological civilizations whose populations are facing real and serious problems, such as Bnd'atria B'mba on a planet in a galaxy we see in Cygnus whose pet thingy is up in a tree being stalked by a bigger flying thingy. Yet not only do you not express concern for Ms. B'mba and her pet, or the trillions of aliens in similar situations (when she was young her father ate her mother), all you cared about was her galaxy's (and every other galaxy's) relative velocity to you, along with perhaps it's rotational velocity profile. How self-centered can you get?! Those galaxies need your help and all you do is sit and gawk at them, while probably raking in 15 million Euros a year or more, which you blow on fancier detectors with higher resolution and greater photon efficiency instead of sending food and clothing to alien civilizations that suffered the misfortune of developing too close to a globular cluster.

 

[iguana_tonante]

And that brings up another issue I have with astrophysicists, on top of their insanely high salaries that let them buy multi-billion dollar telescopes as a hobby.

Not to mention, hookers and blow.

Really, is there any other job as sexist, chauvinist, and misogynist as the astronomer, where one's worth is measured by how long, large, and accurate is one's instrument?

 

[Silvercrest]

^Navy captain, perhaps?

Yet not only do you not express concern for the trillions of aliens in similar situations, all you cared about was her galaxy's (and every other galaxy's) relative velocity to you ... How self-centered can you get?!

You have to learn to keep your distance from these things. It's all relative.

Those galaxies need your help and all you do is sit and gawk at them ... instead of sending food and clothing to alien civilizations that suffered the misfortune of developing too close to a globular cluster.

Well, it's their own fault for living in those neighborhoods. All they have to do is move.

 

[iguana_tonante]

The gentrification of the Great Coma Wall is such an awful thing.

 

[Captrek]

The leading theory of the "cause" of the Big Bang, called eternal inflation, holds that "before" the Big Bang there was the inflating substance. This theory is a solution to the equations of General Relativity, so E=mc^2 holds everywhere, including in the inflating substance.

 

[JarodRussell]

All radiation is photons.

Alpha radiation is a helium nucleus (2 protons, 2 neutrons).

Beta radiation is electrons created by the decay of a neutron into a proton, electron and anti-neutrino.

Gamma radiation is photons, in the gamma portion of the EM spectrum

All electromagnetic radiation then.

And what about those bio-protons?

 

[Silvercrest]

Wait ... bio-photons or bio-protons?

Don't go down the George Lucas path. Forever dominate your destiny it will!

 

[Kemaiku]

All electromagnetic radiation then.

And what about those bio-protons?

Yup.

Bio-photons, never remotely heard of them. Sounds like something from a scifi b-movie.

Photons from living organisms are either emitted infra-red (heat/minor luminesence) or reflected visual spectrum.

Light is denoted by wavelength, not source.

 

[gturner]

So are we proposing that dark matter might be made up of midichlorians?

 

[Silvercrest]

Ah, that old saw ... the dark side of the gravitational force.

Don't try to frighten us with your astrophysicist's ways. Your sad devotion to that ancient science has not helped you conjure up this so-called dark matter, or given you enough insight to develop a Grand Unified Theory....

 

[HIjol]

So are we proposing that dark matter might be made up of midichlorians?

...cannot stop laughing at this one!!!...well done!

 

[HIjol]

^Navy captain, perhaps?

Yet not only do you not express concern for the trillions of aliens in similar situations, all you cared about was her galaxy's (and every other galaxy's) relative velocity to you ... How self-centered can you get?!

You have to learn to keep your distance from these things. It's all relative.

Those galaxies need your help and all you do is sit and gawk at them ... instead of sending food and clothing to alien civilizations that suffered the misfortune of developing too close to a globular cluster.

Well, it's their own fault for living in those neighborhoods. All they have to do is move.

...another example of Interstellar Banks redlining, and limiting Galactic Loans... <tsk>

...and I think "Globular Clusters" belong in that other thread where 'Frakes was writing some scenes for Pine and Alice Eve...

 

[Dryson]

That makes sense (though admittedly I had to read it 3 times to get it ). Only I disagree on one detail: in my opinion a sun isn't absolutely necessary to have photons. Photons can also be the result of a collision of atoms or of an electrone jumping fom a high-energy orbit into a low-energy one. There are even biophotons that are being emitted by living organisms (even by humans).

Oh, and (rather belatedly) welcome to the board! =)

That is true about humans emitting light. If we didn't emit light how would we be able to see each other. Not only do humans emit light but we also reflect light as well.

But all of these atoms that you speak of would have been created after the Big Bang which we were created after the Big Bang as well.

Another interesting question has developed just from reading some of your responses.

If prior to the Big Bang there were not any suns to create radiation then what type of radiation would have been present?

The particles that created the Big Bang would had to have given off some type of radiation as such waves create perturbation that causes other events to take place.

Think of it this way. You have a small pond that never has any wind or other type of motion effecting it which greatly reduces the amount of oxygen that is present to sustain life compared to moderately active pond that has just enough perturbation to cause life to need to evolve in order to survive.

The radiation around the Big Bang of our Universe had to have been moderately active in order to create the ripple effect within the pond after the Big Bang occurred.

Nice to be aboard.

 

[Silvercrest]

Seriously, you keep mentioning the Big Bang but I don't think you're using the term correctly. You seem to perceive it as some sort of reaction that's the result of particles colliding. That's not what is proposed by the so-called "Big Bang Theory", more properly known as the Expanding Universe Model.

The particles that created the Big Bang

Like I said....

 

[iguana_tonante]

If prior to the Big Bang there were not any suns to create radiation then what type of radiation would have been present?

I'll say it again. Very slowly. Try to keep focused, ok? Stars are not the only sources of radiation in the universe. They are not even the main source of radiation in the universe. You don't need stars to have radiation in the universe. Is it clear? Yes?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

IIRC the formula E = m.c^2 or E=gamma.m0.c^2, where gamma = 1/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)) and m0 is the rest mass, was derived from Special Relativity (Einstein) by considering the conservation of momentum and energy in particle collisions. The energy of a photon is directly proportional to its frequency (the Planck formula) E=h.f, where h is Planck's constant and f is the frequency.

 

[Captrek]

If prior to the Big Bang there were not any suns to create radiation then what type of radiation would have been present?

I'll say it again. Very slowly. Try to keep focused, ok? Stars are not the only sources of radiation in the universe. They are not even the main source of radiation in the universe. You don't need stars to have radiation in the universe. Is it clear? Yes?

The question "what type of radiation would have been present?" is still interesting. The four fundamental forces as we understand them didn't yet exist, right? What form of radiation would have existed in the inflation field?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Inflatons are the quanta of that field.

ETA: The grand unification energy (EM+weak+strong) is 10^25 eV, which is about 10^12 times greater than the collision energy in the LHC for proton-proton collisions. There is no generally accepted theory of unification with gravity (theory of everything), which is probably at an even higher energy and earlier time. The grand unification epoch is supposed to have lasted from 10^-43 s to 10^-36 s after t=0. Some think the symmetry breaking or phase transition that separated the electroweak (EM+weak) and strong forces triggered the inflationary period that lasted until 10^-32 s although the duration is still uncertain. The particle families with which we are familiar could not exist until the Higgs field spontaneously acquired its vacuum expectation value of 246 GeV and triggered the phase transition that separated the electromagnetic and weak forces. That was between 10^12 s and 10^16 s.

So it goes...

 

[Spider]

If prior to the Big Bang there were not any suns to create radiation then what type of radiation would have been present?

I'll say it again. Very slowly. Try to keep focused, ok? Stars are not the only sources of radiation in the universe. They are not even the main source of radiation in the universe. You don't need stars to have radiation in the universe. Is it clear? Yes?

The question "what type of radiation would have been present?" is still interesting. The four fundamental forces as we understand them didn't yet exist, right? What form of radiation would have existed in the inflation field?

There is no way we can measure or observe anything prior to the Big Bang, so anything before it is speculation. We have good mathematical models of what happened afterwards, but not before. Everything we see and measure came afterwards. Besides, we are far from understanding the cosmos so there is plenty of science yet to be learned. If the multiverse theory is correct, then we are even further from understanding.