Does canon really matter?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Spot261, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Well, you can. Like the Abrams films, that mass hysteria comes from a small corner of the interwebs. The Discovery folks are going to pick and choose what works, and ignore what doesn't (they aren't going to keep anti-matter blowing up the universe from "The Alternative Factor"). Along with the visual redesign, it pretty much says reboot to me.

    Everyone's mileage will vary.
     
    Kevin Wolff and cultcross like this.
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    There's no hysteria because of Kelvin. Some minor grumbling, but that's it. Probably the dialogue in ST09 about Kelvin being an "alternative" timeline (rather than overwriting the existing one) helped a bit.

    If ST09 had been a 'hard' reboot (like nuBSG) that involved no time travel whatsoever, it'd have been even better.
     
  3. starmike

    starmike Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    I think the problem I have with a reboot is that I think Trek would need to have an "end". For example, what has all this led to? What if there was more info on The Preservers or Sargon's race, or what was seen-but-not-named in "The Chase". Put a cap on the bottle, and then reboot it. I think that would be the only way to really make it happen.

    But, I'm still not for it. I'd like a post-Voyager show someday. There's a lot out there to tell stories about.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    ^ No story "needs" to have an end.
     
    Ovation likes this.
  5. starmike

    starmike Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    When it runs 50+ years and has a rabid fanbase, I think you do. When you spend so long running around the galaxy, I would think there needs to be a point to it all; a greater purpose. If not, then you're just a lame comic book-type show on TV.
     
  6. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    Hey. Hey! HEY!!! Whoa!

    I'm good with different visuals, retconned bits here and there, etc. But disrespect the genius of Lazarus' theories of matter/anti-matter interaction? :scream::klingon::censored::brickwall:

    I'm totally boycotting the show and will spend the rest of my days making them rue the day...



    :lol:
     
    BillJ likes this.
  7. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    Sorry, but no. No art, commercial or otherwise, owes anyone a particular outcome or satisfaction. Whatever "meaning" it might have is up to the audience to provide for itself. Real life has no purpose beyond what one gives it, why should it be different for art?
     
    BillJ likes this.
  8. starmike

    starmike Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Because you can't leave threads hanging.

    What if "Return of the Jedi" never happened?
     
  9. cultcross

    cultcross Postponed for the snooker Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    Which threads were left hanging? We had What You Leave Behind, Endgame and Nemesis. All the 24th century shows had an ending. Sure, you could resurrect that time and start a new story, or tell a 'relaunch' or whatever, but that's not Return of the Jedi, that's Force Awakens. It continues the story, but it isn't a necessary conclusion to one already running.
     
  10. starmike

    starmike Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Borg
    Preservers
    Gamma Quadrant
    Romulans
    Bugs (Conspiracy)

    ...and you have the whole Beta Quadrant for new stories.

    Besides, who wants to sit through a whole reboot? Not me.

    Why do you think Vic is finishing up TOS? Because he's giving the show a proper ending.
     
  11. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    Life would have continued?

    I don't object to the idea of individuals wanting resolution to a story. I object to the idea that such resolution is owed them. It isn't. Moreover, the 50+ years of Trek guarantees it cannot be fully resolved (barring a depiction of the universe dying, thus killing every unresolved plot simultaneously).

    The Preservers? Sargon? An incredibly tiny number of viewers would know who they were and fewer would care. I'd much rather know more about the fate of the Romulan commander from the Enterprise Incident, or how Bailey fared after Corbomite. Others no doubt have their own preferences. There's no way to "bottle cap" it to majority satisfaction--not worth the effort.
     
  12. cultcross

    cultcross Postponed for the snooker Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    Nothing there is a dangling story thread. They had hundreds of hours of TV to bring back the weird bug things from an early not-that-great TNG episode, and chose not to - the conclusion to that story is they never came back. Ditto the Preservers, nobody cared enough to do another story about them in 50 years. The aliens in The Chase were just a sledgehammer metaphor for everyone being the same deep down, and a bit of explanation as to why everyone in Trek is basically humanoid. It's a self contained story.

    The others are just elements of the Trek universe, short of some event which literally ended the universe there's no way to show every further event involving everything that's ever been shown or mentioned in Star Trek. That's not how stories work. Each iteration of 24th century Trek got a chance to wrap up what the storytellers saw as important, and got their Happily Ever After. Anything else we do in that time period is just starting a new series. I don't necessarily object to that, and I certainly don't object to others wanting that, but you can't pretend we left the 24th century on some kind of nailbiting cliffhanger.
     
    BillJ and Ovation like this.
  13. Blamo

    Blamo Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    With all the time travel going on, there's bound to be some variance in the time line. That's how I see it anyway.

    Also, you know, TV moves on and it's moved on a lot from around 50 years ago.
     
  14. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
  15. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    I would so love this.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Fateor likes this.
  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    By canon they mean the lore/story.

    I don't think they should be using canon as the word.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Let me rephrase, they are within canon. Canon is anything produced by CBS and/or Paramount. They aren't within continuity of TOS.
     
  19. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } Cute but deadly Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    KauaŹ»i
    They could just say: "Of course it's the exact same world. It just looks differently because it's 2017 and we can make creative decisions."
     
    Mr. Laser Beam and Tuskin38 like this.
  20. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    They're within the story continuity. They're not going to contradict anything from TOS story wise. Visual wise, sure, but they're not going to kill off Kirk or anything.