Does Beverly Crusher Rape William Riker in "The Host?"

[sonak]

OK, so DS9 tweaked the Trill symbiont/host relationship to make it less "the slug controls the host" and more of a shared relationship.

Yet in TNG's "the host," "Odan" is pretty much "the slug." And so when Odan is temporarily in Riker's body, he is fully in control and making the decisions, not Will Riker, who is basically gone in terms of conscious control.


Knowing this, Dr. Crusher proceeds to have sex with "Odan" while he is in control of Riker's body. I assume that under normal circumstances she and Will wouldn't be having sex and he also isn't in a position to consent here.


So... how is this not just Beverly taking advantage and sexually exploiting Riker? Especially when she knows it'll only be a few days until Odan gets a new body to take control of!

She draws the line at being with Odan when it's in a female body but is okay with having sex with him while he's in the body of a long-time friend?




very weird.

 

[Michael]

It has been a long time since I last watched that episode, but did they really have Crusher and Riker/Odan making love? I don't actually recall that.

 

[spockrocks]

Lucky freakin Riker!!!!!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As I understood it, Riker knew the risks of what he was about to do when he agreed to host Odan. He knew Odan would not abuse his body willingly, and he knew the dangers should something go wrong.

I think Riker also knew of Odan's relationship with Beverly. Consent seemed to be implied.

And I doubt the host, even then, was totally without influence, otherwise how did Kareel even manage to walk into sickbay before SHE became a host? Kareel could speak and seemed to have some mental function...

(the true tragedy of this episode: no Beverly/Kareel makeout scene )

 

[sonak]

As I understood it, Riker knew the risks of what he was about to do when he agreed to host Odan. He knew Odan would not abuse his body willingly, and he knew the dangers should something go wrong.

I think Riker also knew of Odan's relationship with Beverly. Consent seemed to be implied.

And I doubt the host, even then, was totally without influence, otherwise how did Kareel even manage to walk into sickbay before SHE became a host? Kareel could speak and seemed to have some mental function...

(the true tragedy of this episode: no Beverly/Kareel makeout scene )

I think Riker figured the "risks" were about the medical procedure transferring Odan to him, not that his body would be used for sex while his consciousness was temporarily on vacation.

 

[YARN]

As I understood it, Riker knew the risks of what he was about to do when he agreed to host Odan. He knew Odan would not abuse his body willingly, and he knew the dangers should something go wrong.

I think Riker also knew of Odan's relationship with Beverly. Consent seemed to be implied.

And I doubt the host, even then, was totally without influence, otherwise how did Kareel even manage to walk into sickbay before SHE became a host? Kareel could speak and seemed to have some mental function...

(the true tragedy of this episode: no Beverly/Kareel makeout scene )

I think Riker figured the "risks" were about the medical procedure transferring Odan to him, not that his body would be used for sex while his consciousness was temporarily on vacation.

LOL, the notion others have of "implied consent" here is terrifying.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ How so? Like I said, Riker knew Beverly and Odan had a thing going.

 

[sonak]

^ How so? Like I said, Riker knew Beverly and Odan had a thing going.

maybe so, but he might have figured "Beverly's my friend, she'll probably be able to control herself for the FEW DAYS until Odan can get a permanent host rather than use my body while my mind is gone."



not an unreasonable assumption.

 

[TerragonSix]

^ How so? Like I said, Riker knew Beverly and Odan had a thing going.

Umm... yeah? There's a difference between 'knowing that Beverly and Odan had a goog thing going", to, 'Hellz yeah, you may make me your loveslave!"

Dare I say, a BIG difference?

 

[The Dominion]

But he's Riker, surely he would've given his consent. How is this even a question?

 

[Disruptor]

A thread about free Will!

 

[Trekker4747]

I certainly can see it being classified as Rape. It's unlikely Riker would have willingly slept with Beverly even if given the opportunity. We're shown that Riker does have an ounce or two of moral code to him and loyalty to his friends.

Since Odan was in control of Riker's body and Riker had no apparently influence on the actions of the Trill parasite then one could argue that Beverly "raped" Will's body but not Will's mind (which is a non issue here.) I don't think it is made clear to us how much Will remembers of the time the Trill slug was in control but it can probably presumed he remembers nothing since the host's body and brain doesn't seem to much in control of things beyond maybe regulating the body's biological functions.

So, essentially, what we have here is "date rape." The Trill slug was little more than a roofie that essentially turned off Will's conscious mind and allowed another aspect to run things. (In the case of date-rape this is usually the subconscious mind.)

Will may have known about Odan and Beverly's relationship (though I've not seen the episode in a while) but he also probably expected a fellow officer, a doctor and his friend to treat his body and the situation with the respect it deserved. Beverly, apparently, puts her jollies above the sexual integrity of a friend as well as her medical ethics. (Since Riker/Odan is her patient at the time it is medically unethical for her to have a sexual relationship with him.)

So, yeah, I'd say it was "rape." But maybe in the enlightened 24th century where this sort of bizarre stuff can happen people have more open minds about things.

Also it's worth noting I feel this Trill species (I call them the P'Trill) is different than the Trill we encounter during DS9. It's possible both come from the same planet but just different cultures with different appearances and approaches to the Host/Symbiont thing. The vast difference in appearances can simply being chalked up to them being different "races" of the same species. Though much more subtle there are plenty of differences between Caucasian, African, Mongolian and other types of humans. On Trill it could be much more noticeable causing things to differ from completely human-looking aside from spots, to a humanoid with a forehead protrusion. Hell, we could even argue that the different ways they handle the slug aspect of their species guided their different looks.

And the transporter picks up on the more parasitic nature of the TNG Trill race making it dangerous as opposed to the symbiotic relation ship of the DS9 Trill race, that race of Trill being more active and known in Starfleet due to their different relationship, though it may not be common enough knowledge to the point where Beverly would know about them.

For me it takes a lot of mental gymnastics but I can logically see how the TNG Trill and DS9 Trill can both be around at the same time and not muck up continuity.

Woman Odan was hot.

 

[Trevacious]

^ How so? Like I said, Riker knew Beverly and Odan had a thing going.

Yes, but they weren't using Riker's thing to get their thing going. I'm not so sure he volunteered for That duty.

But, I suppose what he can't remember can't affect him, alien venereal diseases aside... I can hope Beverly gave Odan's hosts the full checkup before engaging, and that contraceptives never fail in the 24th century.

 

[sonak]

I certainly can see it being classified as Rape. It's unlikely Riker would have willingly slept with Beverly even if given the opportunity. We're shown that Riker does have an ounce or two of moral code to him and loyalty to his friends.

Since Odan was in control of Riker's body and Riker had no apparently influence on the actions of the Trill parasite then one could argue that Beverly "raped" Will's body but not Will's mind (which is a non issue here.) I don't think it is made clear to us how much Will remembers of the time the Trill slug was in control but it can probably presumed he remembers nothing since the host's body and brain doesn't seem to much in control of things beyond maybe regulating the body's biological functions.

So, essentially, what we have here is "date rape." The Trill slug was little more than a roofie that essentially turned off Will's conscious mind and allowed another aspect to run things. (In the case of date-rape this is usually the subconscious mind.)

Will may have known about Odan and Beverly's relationship (though I've not seen the episode in a while) but he also probably expected a fellow officer, a doctor and his friend to treat his body and the situation with the respect it deserved. Beverly, apparently, puts her jollies above the sexual integrity of a friend as well as her medical ethics. (Since Riker/Odan is her patient at the time it is medically unethical for her to have a sexual relationship with him.)

So, yeah, I'd say it was "rape." But maybe in the enlightened 24th century where this sort of bizarre stuff can happen people have more open minds about things.

Also it's worth noting I feel this Trill species (I call them the P'Trill) is different than the Trill we encounter during DS9. It's possible both come from the same planet but just different cultures with different appearances and approaches to the Host/Symbiont thing. The vast difference in appearances can simply being chalked up to them being different "races" of the same species. Though much more subtle there are plenty of differences between Caucasian, African, Mongolian and other types of humans. On Trill it could be much more noticeable causing things to differ from completely human-looking aside from spots, to a humanoid with a forehead protrusion. Hell, we could even argue that the different ways they handle the slug aspect of their species guided their different looks.

And the transporter picks up on the more parasitic nature of the TNG Trill race making it dangerous as opposed to the symbiotic relation ship of the DS9 Trill race, that race of Trill being more active and known in Starfleet due to their different relationship, though it may not be common enough knowledge to the point where Beverly would know about them.

For me it takes a lot of mental gymnastics but I can logically see how the TNG Trill and DS9 Trill can both be around at the same time and not muck up continuity.

Woman Odan was hot.

this is an excellent analysis, though I can't see how more "enlightened" 24th century attitudes would lead to being more casual about date rape.

I think any way you look at it(unless Riker gave consent for Bev to use his body for sex off-screen, a rather large and unlikely assumption) Dr. Crusher's actions here are pretty shocking.

 

[RandyS]

Lucky freakin Riker!!!!!

Indeed.

 

[Trekker4747]

..I can't see how more "enlightened" 24th century attitudes would lead to being more casual about date rape.

It's possible that in the 24th century maybe sex and sexuality isn't so highly regarded as an ultimate invasion or sanctity that should be protected. Violently forcing someone to submit sexually is different (like the "mind rape" episode with the telepathic aliens.) But, perhaps in the 24th century certain attitudes about sex and our bodies are just regarded differently. If Riker found out about this he likely wouldn't see it as rape but just an action that happened while someone else was in control of his body that doesn't impact himself (him mentally.)

I don't think I can explain it right and I admit it's a slippery slope and all but it's "possible" Riker wouldn't be bothered by what happened here and attitudes about sex in the 24c make this situation acceptable. No one was harmed and all meaningful parties consented. (Riker consented to donating his body for this procedure.)

I think any way you look at it(unless Riker gave consent for Bev to use his body for sex off-screen, a rather large and unlikely assumption) Dr. Crusher's actions here are pretty shocking.

Well, I agree. Crusher's actions are certainly shocking and beyond what should be considered acceptable for a doctor to do to a patient(s).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ How so? Like I said, Riker knew Beverly and Odan had a thing going.

Yes, but they weren't using Riker's thing to get their thing going. I'm not so sure he volunteered for That duty.

But, I suppose what he can't remember can't affect him, alien venereal diseases aside... I can hope Beverly gave Odan's hosts the full checkup before engaging, and that contraceptives never fail in the 24th century.

I think Beverly asked Riker if it was okay for her to have sex with RikerOdan. We never saw her ask him, but we do know she is a caring individual and is not the type who would sneak anything by a friend/crewmate. So I just assume they worked it out offscreen.

 

[TerragonSix]

Here's a better question, and more lighthearted...

Did Beverly Crusher had a three way with Odom and Riker in the episode, "The Host"?

 

[Tom]

How do we know that Will and Beverly never had some descreet sex before, i won't tell Jean Luc if you wont tell Deanna.. LOL Ya, why would Will mind? it's not like he ever turns down anyone for sex. In Conundrum he sleeps with Ro even though he could not remember anything about who she was to him. Hooking up with the chick that used him to get the 'game' on the Enterprise, also the farmers (do you not like girls will..) daughter in season 2, falling in love with a holodeck Minuete, etc..kinda tells you where his limits (or lack there of) are. Not even going talk about will and his choices in 'The Outcast' LOL

 

[Tora Ziyal]

How do we know that Will and Beverly never had some descreet sex before, i won't tell Jean Luc if you wont tell Deanna.. LOL Ya, why would Will mind? it's not like he ever turns down anyone for sex. In Conundrum he sleeps with Ro even though he could not remember anything about who she was to him. Hooking up with the chick that used him to get the 'game' on the Enterprise, also the farmers (do you not like girls will..) daughter in season 2, falling in love with a holodeck Minuete, etc..kinda tells you where his limits (or lack there of) are. Not even going talk about will and his choices in 'The Outcast' LOL

This is precariously close to blaming the victim -- happens frequently in rape cases, where the defense uses the victim's prior history try to prove that it wasn't really rape.

That said, I'm not convinced that what Crusher did should be considered rape. I just watched the episode, and it was Riker/Odan who kept wanting to touch her, who was pretty much seducing her. To me, the problem with her actions was that she was his physician, and a sexual relationship between doctor and patient is unethical, no matter how consensual.

The question that nobody is asking: Did Odon take advantage of William Riker? Shouldn't he have respected Riker's own relationships/friendships and stayed away from romance with Crusher while he was in Riker's body?