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Does anyone think TMP was a great movie for its first half?

The Enterprise doesn't even leave spacedock until an hour into the movie! The first half is a complete bore. The opening sequence was cool but the movie never takes off and does anything. I couldn't watch it as a kid and I still have trouble making it even half way through it today.
 
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The story, acting, effects, models, and artistry on display in TMP are wonderful. The film's worst fault is its pacing. There are too many "awe and wonder" shots that go on for too long. If showcasing the Enterprise was the only time, then I could forgive the movie. However, the movie just comes to a screeching halt several more times during the V'Ger approach and entrance. The horrible pacing is the only thing that makes me give TMP 2.5 stars instead of 5.
 
Jon Povill didn't think much of it, but director Bob Collins did make a try at the script after HL and GR and HL again. The Collins version has the original 'big finish' ... the one that after I heard it described, sounds like the one that would have worked best (Povill disagrees strongly on this point), the one where the light show triggered off is a giant series of visuals and sounds derived from the info within voyager6's onboard laserdisk.

NOBODY seems to have seen the Collins draft outside of production way back when ... I read the GR version (they used to sell copies) and the HL version (in the p2 book) and neither of them have much of an ending, while both have the 'movie stops dead halfway through' problem.

I don't think anybody has seen the Dennis Clark version either, but that was the first writer Wise had on after he signed to direct, before he got desperate and had paramount bring HL back. The only Clark interview I recall has him not remember much of anything about the script, just about having to duck Nimoy and Shatner because their input was not wanted.

I keep thinking somebody has a drawer with the Clark and the Collins and maybe even PLANET OF THE TITANS (which to me would be a lot more interesting to read, especially the Kaufman treatment), but even so, they'll probably go on ebay for a mint and a half.

The second half of act 2 is where most movies go to Hell for me, so it isn't just TMP that has the problem. Shoot, the biggest lag -- i.e., smoke break -- in TWOK for me is the Kirk/Carol scene inside Regula, but they bounce right back with "I don't like to lose."

Usually the second half of act 2 needs to do with escalating the danger and deepening the relationships ... in TMP, they just keep pushing scale issues and escalating the 'who is vger?' mystery, which is a guaranteed buildup-to-disappoint for most.

Ideally the Kirk/Decker issue would have continued to escalate, or McCoy would have had to step in to do something authoritative. But wouldn't all of this take away from the main story? Maybe, maybe not. If you made the second half of act 2 a matter of sorting out the command situation (so they were presenting a unified front in which everybody contributed) WHILE Spock went off and did his meld, then maybe things would have seemed more active.

Or here's another thought ... toss out the wormhole completely. That gets you to vger a bit quicker, since you hold back on the mccoy lecture too. Don't have Kirk seem to make a mistake until the vger approach ... and then have him make a command that would have them miss the intercept, and have Decker correct for it.

That way, WHILE they make their approach through the cloud, you have the kirk mccoy debates, maybe in the lounge so you see the great views outside WHILE there is character stuff going on in the foreground. You bring up the Spock reliability issues here as well, or bring them up AFTER the flyover, after Ilia gets pinched and right before she is returned.

Yeah, getting to vger faster and then having more issues to deal with then just looking out the window and asking what are you? seems to work better, but I'm just typing this off the top of my head.

That all sounds pretty good. The wormhole sequence is the biggest WTF? moment in the movie, I think. It's like some weird mini-movie inside the main movie that comes out of nowhere and dissipates back into nowhere when it's done, leaving only a character conflict that we knew about already. If it could be dumped, all the better.

And while we're at it--have Spock be the one to merge with V'Ger. The story sets them up as mirrored lost souls through the first two acts, and it needs dramatic payoff. Then, to keep TWoK, you just kill Spock at the climax of every movie thereafter. :evil:
 
So because a minority of people liked it greatly in 1979 it was therefore a great movie?

For a movie to be considered 'great' there has to be a consensus. In 1979 the majority of both fans and critics felt it was sub-par.

The average non-trek movie-goer felt the story was slow and ponderous and the Trek fans fell into 3 catagories:

1. those who loved it then and still do---good for you I'm glad you got the trek you wanted in 1979.

2. Those who hated it fiercly. "It's nothing like the show, there's no action or adventure, there's no cast interplay, it's dull and drab looking, it's slow and boring, there's no humor at all" etc..

3. those of us who wanted to like it. Who convinced ouselves it wasn't that bad. Who liked parts of it----the FX, the score, the epic scope, seeing the ship in its glory for the first time etc

But it wasn't really until Trek 2 came out that we admitted it just wasn't a good Trek movie. You could have an epic story and the character interplay and the humor and the action and the cool FX and colorful look.

Because you love something doesn't make it great.

Maybe trek 2 isn't 'great' but it is darn good Trek and good movie-making and not boring.
 
So because a minority of people liked it greatly in 1979 it was therefore a great movie?

For a movie to be considered 'great' there has to be a consensus. In 1979 the majority of both fans and critics felt it was sub-par.

You can say the same thing about BLADE RUNNER; but today (hell, even five years after it came out), more and more people think that is great.

I'm not saying TMP is BR (not by a longshot), but your idea of criteria for greatness is questionable.
 
I watched it just now for the first time in ages. I think the topic title is a fair analysis. Maybe not a great movie for the first half, but watchable at least. And then...blaaah. It's nothing above ok. My least favourite Trek film I would say.

The wormhole was a point of interest though. And the transporter accident was nasty.
 
Right after Spock came one is when the film got boring. There was the scene when you have a little bickering between Spock and McCoy that is classic. But after that point the film stops. The only scene that's really watchable after that is the one between Kirk and Spock where Spock says that a simple feeling is beyond V'Ger's comprehension. But outside of that it is awful to watch.
 
The first half is, somewhat, more successful, for me, simply because I like the sense of anticipation and seeing a narrative build. This is a deep-seated psychological kink of mine that I am unable to shift. Not that I want to, as such. I do also think that TMP's first half may also be the leaner and more focused of its two halves, to one degree or another, but I actually think the difference is rather trivial, in the grander scheme of things.

What the first half offers, amongst other things, is a sense of drive, where the humans (taken to mean actual humans and human-like characters) wrestle with their personal desires and must adjust and balance themselves sufficiently to be permitted passage into V'Ger and the second half of the picture. This is also metaphorically expressed in the balancing of the Enterprise herself. In this sense, the first half is about readying for exploration, while the second half is the process of exploration itself.

When exploration is undertaken, extreme patience and diligence are essential qualities if one is to have any measure of success or cumulative sense of reward. One of the things I admire about TMP is the implicit, albeit uneasy, trust, between V'Ger and the Enterprise (and its crew; this I place in parentheses since V'Ger primarily recognises the Enterprise, not the "carbon units"). There is tentative, even volative, but sustained mutual curiosity between the two. In essence, they are both children. That child-like sense of wonderment is beautifully conveyed in TMP's second half. For instance, certain shots and moments in TMP's latter half are, to me, very humbling, as any journey into the unknown should be.

For as much as, in Roger Ebert's words, a film is not about what it's about, but about how it's about what it's about, TMP is not merely the mechanical telling of a series of events in the fictional lives of fictional characters, nor even about one set of ideas, themes and motifs or another, but a cinematic expression of how humans get things done, what motivates them, why we're motivated at all, and even more fundamentally, as Roger Ebert's maxim implores us consider, the means by which that can be celebrated in art -- in this case, as an elegant work of speculative fiction, with long shots, clipped, precise dialogue, characters maintaining their poise and dignity even in the face of threats and intrusions both personal and impersonal, production design that is at once sleek and refined (Starfleet) and dark and baroque (V'Ger), and a gorgeous, mellifluous score that allows everything to play as an epic ballet, faintly recalling The Blue Danube in "2001" and a million things beside.

If it's not clear, I love TMP. It's a wonderfully evocative motion picture, more than worthy of its name. The title, by the way, as opposed to something like "In Thy Image", and especially a diminutive sobriquet like "The Movie", perfectly riffs on its source material's small screen origins, placing cogent emphasis on the idea, much like the design of the Enterprise and interior earth-tone aesthetic, that Star Trek has been consciously reworked, expanded and evolved into something more stately, grand and wondrous. At least, for one little motion picture, way back in the Christmas of '79.
 
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