Does anyone care that they killed Picard's family in Generations?

[lennier1]

Picard's family, the other El Aurian ship, Soran's victims, ...
The movie was full of empty deaths for the sake of filling the script.

 

[Dukhat]

@Dukhat...you and I might choose to save our families from a horrible death given the circumstances but the poster was talking about Picard. Picard as he was in Generations and prior to that would not take matters into his own hands like that. He might be seriously tempted to do but probably would take into consideration everything that could result from that decision. Plus there's the matter of the Temporal Prime Directive (lol which of course was created later but we can assume existed and was imposed then).

You can try to justify Picard's actions all you want. I still don't buy it.

And everything you stated above didn't stop future Admiral Janeway from doing exactly that. Not that she's a stellar example of levelheadedness, mind you

Picard is given the chance, through Q, to bring back to life a never before mentioned brother who died as a child.

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Picard didn't do it. Well, I don't think it's quite the same thing to put your trust in someone like Q as opposed to putting your trust in Guinan.

 

[sonak]

@Dukhat...you and I might choose to save our families from a horrible death given the circumstances but the poster was talking about Picard. Picard as he was in Generations and prior to that would not take matters into his own hands like that. He might be seriously tempted to do but probably would take into consideration everything that could result from that decision. Plus there's the matter of the Temporal Prime Directive (lol which of course was created later but we can assume existed and was imposed then).

You can try to justify Picard's actions all you want. I still don't buy it.

And everything you stated above didn't stop future Admiral Janeway from doing exactly that. Not that she's a stellar example of levelheadedness, mind you

Picard is given the chance, through Q, to bring back to life a never before mentioned brother who died as a child.

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Picard didn't do it. Well, I don't think it's quite the same thing to put your trust in someone like Q as opposed to putting your trust in Guinan.

well no, Picard does take up Q on his offer, but in a way-out-there plot twist, Picard's brother ends up leading a neo-fascist movement. On Earth. In The Twenty-Fourth Century. Hmmm.... the movement ends up taking over the UFP, etc., etc.


I thought it was kind of a bizarre twist.


That said, the first part of the comic, where Q has Picard's parents convinced that Jean-Luc is not really their son is excellent. And the artwork for the whole comic is amazing.

the neo-fascist brother angle threw me though.

 

[Dukhat]

well no, Picard does take up Q on his offer, but in a way-out-there plot twist, Picard's brother ends up leading a neo-fascist movement. On Earth. In The Twenty-Fourth Century. Hmmm.... the movement ends up taking over the UFP, etc., etc.


I thought it was kind of a bizarre twist.


That said, the first part of the comic, where Q has Picard's parents convinced that Jean-Luc is not really their son is excellent. And the artwork for the whole comic is amazing.

the neo-fascist brother angle threw me though.

So basically it's like Tapestry, where Q gives Picard a chance to get out of that fight where he lost his heart, only to find that the results are nothing like what he expected. Well, duh! What did Picard think was going to happen when dealing with Q? That he was going to live happily ever after? I wouldn't trust Q as far as I could throw him.

 

[T'Girl]

And everything you stated above didn't stop future Admiral Janeway from doing exactly that. Not that she's a stellar example of levelheadedness, mind you

But Spock is a model of levelheadedness and he (in Yesteryear) went back thirty years in time to save his mothers life (thanks JJ Abrams), preserve his parents marriage and also the save his own existence.

And bear in mind, Robert and Rene did not peacefully pass in their sleep. They were killed by a fire. Picard could have exited the nexie in such a way to preserve his families life's, save the people on the observatory, intercept the sisters prior to the attack, arrest Soran, destroy his base of operation, save the lifes of all the inhabitants of the primitive world, stopping the nova of two stars. Picard would have know he'd be doing all these things.

Plus he could turn himself into Starfleet and the temporal police.

Unbeknownst to Picard, he'd also be saving the Klingon crew of the sister's BoP and preventing the destruction of the Enterprise Dee. Given the violence of both the attack on the Enterprise and the crash landing, how many people were either injured or killed aboard the Enterprise?

Robert and Rene were only dead for what? A few days, how much of a impact would preventing their death have had on the universe?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The worst episodes of Voyager and DS9 wouldn't have happened.

Causality and all that.

 

[sonak]

well no, Picard does take up Q on his offer, but in a way-out-there plot twist, Picard's brother ends up leading a neo-fascist movement. On Earth. In The Twenty-Fourth Century. Hmmm.... the movement ends up taking over the UFP, etc., etc.


I thought it was kind of a bizarre twist.


That said, the first part of the comic, where Q has Picard's parents convinced that Jean-Luc is not really their son is excellent. And the artwork for the whole comic is amazing.

the neo-fascist brother angle threw me though.

So basically it's like Tapestry, where Q gives Picard a chance to get out of that fight where he lost his heart, only to find that the results are nothing like what he expected. Well, duh! What did Picard think was going to happen when dealing with Q? That he was going to live happily ever after? I wouldn't trust Q as far as I could throw him.

yes, very similar in concept to "tapestry."



As far as the Picard time-travelling thing in GEN, yeah, since he was already interfering with an historical event in the first place by going back, why not just go slightly farther back and rescue his family?

a plot point that should've really been explained as it makes Picard look like an idiot, considering he just had Rene on his mind MINUTES EARLIER in his nexus fantasy.

 

[Dukhat]

But Spock is a model of levelheadedness and he (in Yesteryear) went back thirty years in time to save his mothers life (thanks JJ Abrams), preserve his parents marriage and also the save his own existence.

"Yesteryear" is an epsiode of TAS, whose canonicity is shaky at best. And what does Abrams have to do with that?

And bear in mind, Robert and Rene did not peacefully pass in their sleep. They were killed by a fire. Picard could have exited the nexie in such a way to preserve his families life's, save the people on the observatory, intercept the sisters prior to the attack, arrest Soran, destroy his base of operation, save the lifes of all the inhabitants of the primitive world, stopping the nova of two stars. Picard would have know he'd be doing all these things.

No no no. All he'd have to do is go back far enough in time to tell his family to avoid the circumstances which led to their deaths, and then arrest Soran before he did anything, and then let him be mind-melded with a Vulcan or scanned by a Betazoid to reveal his motives. Case closed.

Plus he could turn himself into Starfleet and the temporal police.

Again, the "temporal police" is a plot device whose reason for existence is shaky at best.

Unbeknownst to Picard, he'd also be saving the Klingon crew of the sister's BoP and preventing the destruction of the Enterprise Dee. Given the violence of both the attack on the Enterprise and the crash landing, how many people were either injured or killed aboard the Enterprise?

Robert and Rene were only dead for what? A few days, how much of a impact would preventing their death have had on the universe?

Now you're confusing me. Are you agreeing with me that he should have saved his family? If so, great!

 

[Search4]

It was one of the most ridiculous set-ups in the whole movie.

Family members die a horrible death and Picard is shown emotionally broken up like we've never seen.
Days, if not hours later, he encounters this Nexus that enables him to be anywhere at anytime.

Tell me the first order of business on his mind wouldn't be to go back a few days and save his brother and nephew. How could it NOT be?

And if not that, then his consuming grief should have at least lead to a Nexus fantasy where Oh Thank God, they're still alive and okay!!

You'd think, right?

Completely agreed.

 

[The Lensman]

And everything you stated above didn't stop future Admiral Janeway from doing exactly that. Not that she's a stellar example of levelheadedness, mind you

But Spock is a model of levelheadedness and he (in Yesteryear) went back thirty years in time to save his mothers life (thanks JJ Abrams), preserve his parents marriage and also the save his own existence.

And bear in mind, Robert and Rene did not peacefully pass in their sleep. They were killed by a fire. Picard could have exited the nexie in such a way to preserve his families life's, save the people on the observatory, intercept the sisters prior to the attack, arrest Soran, destroy his base of operation, save the lifes of all the inhabitants of the primitive world, stopping the nova of two stars. Picard would have know he'd be doing all these things.

Plus he could turn himself into Starfleet and the temporal police.

Unbeknownst to Picard, he'd also be saving the Klingon crew of the sister's BoP and preventing the destruction of the Enterprise Dee. Given the violence of both the attack on the Enterprise and the crash landing, how many people were either injured or killed aboard the Enterprise?

Robert and Rene were only dead for what? A few days, how much of a impact would preventing their death have had on the universe?

Picards actions...or lack of...is probably one of the reasons people just stopped caring about Star Trek. You can spin it with all the in-universe logic you want...but in the real world, most people would move heaven and earth to bring a loved one back after they had died a horrific and painful death.

Characters that just shrug that off don't resonate with an audience.

This is why we've gone back to the Star Trek characters that felt like normal humans, and the ones that resonate most with an audience.

 

[Admiral_Young]

My justification is based on what we know about Picard's character not about my own personal feelings projected into Picard's character. Dukhat and others, you guys are coming from your own personal standpoint not Picard's. From what you know of his character to that date would he have made that decision? My answer is no.

 

[Dukhat]

My justification is based on what we know about Picard's character not about my own personal feelings projected into Picard's character. Dukhat and others, you guys are coming from your own personal standpoint not Picard's. From what you know of his character to that date would he have made that decision? My answer is no.

But in Tapestry, Picard was willing to change history for his own personal reasons. Why wouldn't he do the same for his own family? While it's true that Picard didn't get what he expected in Tapestry, it was more that Q was screwing with him more than anything.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah Jean-Luc was willing to change his own personal history and look at how that turned out for him? That was a major change that turned out to be disastrous for his career. He would have learned from that experience and know that messing with time even for one's benefit isn't such a good idea. When explained about the Nexus by Guinan's "echo" and realizing what he could do...indeed he could have taken that opportunity to go back and save his family but he didn't (and yes it was because the plot forced him to make that decision but I believe it was true to Picard's character) and went to stop Soran instead seeing the greater danger he posed. His own personal needs didn't matter, even with the emotional turmoil he was experiencing.

 

[Dukhat]

As I said, Q was messing with him. And those changes occurred down the road. I can't think of a single reason why saving his family could have any lasting negative repercussions. But that's me. And most everyone else replying to this topic.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I never said there was anything wrong with having those opinions. I realize that I'm in the minority regarding this issue. I just feel you guys are ignoring Picard's character and basing his decision on personal choices you as individuals would make. That is my point. As I've said I like the rest of you would go back and try to save it...the question was regarding Picard though not the rest of us.

 

[The Lensman]

My justification is based on what we know about Picard's character not about my own personal feelings projected into Picard's character. Dukhat and others, you guys are coming from your own personal standpoint not Picard's. From what you know of his character to that date would he have made that decision? My answer is no.

And again, you've highlighted why Picard doesn't resonate with audiences. He comes off as little better than a stuffy bureaucrat, who quotes the rules while people die. Contrast that to Kirk who'll do what it takes to save lives even if it cost's him his career.

And that's what resonates with audiences...you know, the people for whom all of this is for.

There was enough time for Picard to save his brother and stop Soran...the events weren't close enough together for it to be an "either or" situation.

 

[Ssosmcin]

He could have gone back and phasered them out of existence just before they got killed. From what we've seen of Starfleet disintegration settings, it's pretty painless. He'd be saving his loved ones pain but still keeping the timeline pure. Of course, that would probably not go over very well with the audience.

Anyway, Picard went back and changed history when the star's shock wave destroyed Viridian III. He can go back and change history to save a bunch of people we never see (and the Enterprise crew) but not his own family? "Robert was a douche, you know. He's well gone. However, I would be stuck with Rene, and lord know I don't like children..."

Going back in time to save a million dead people is the same thing, temporally speaking, as going back and saving two people. In either case you are changing history to save lives.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

I am kind of indifferent with them killing off Picard's family. Except for the episode "Family," they really didn't feature his family, so I didn't really get attached to them as characters. Of course it was only to serve the Nexus plot, but Picard was only tempted to say in the Nexus for like 5 seconds, so it was kind of unnecessary. But it was sad, and also brings another dimension to Picard, because he comes to terms with the idea that he is the last of his family line (unless you count the books), and sort of makes him a tragic character.

 

[Jeyl]

Here's the problem with Picard not wanting to go back further to save his family so he wouldn't disrupt the time line. He still goes back in time to stop Soran and save his crew!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Well sure he does, but his crew is the secondary objective here. He's really stopping Soran to prevent the destruction of Veridan III. The Enterpise-D saucer section just happened to be on the planet at the time the Nexus enveloped it. Plus I don't think he ever utters that he is going to be saving his crew. He's primary motivation and objective is to stop Soran.