Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

[The Nth Doctor]

The idea that a TARDIS would take six people to pilot properly goes all the way back to the original design for the 2005 series, in which the set designer surmised just that (or something for a minimum crew of three in usual situations, each managing two sides fo the pedestal). Why not have six consoles facing inwards, but to have six people each with a different function? If it were just one, I'd rather have one console (and a chair) to manage everything than be forced to run around a column all the time.

In the original series, we only ever saw TARDISes with one operator, namely for the Master, the Rani, and the Meddling Monk. All the other Time Lords seemed to dispense with a TARDIS entirely, timply popping in wherever and whenever they needed to do it. The most "modern" TARDIS we saw was arguably the Rani's, which had a round console; we could infer that as TARDIS design advanced from the days of the Doctor's type 40 (and whatever the Master and Monk were driving) that fewer crew were required for optimum operation, to the point that not many Time Lords even used TARDISes anymore when they bothered to leave Gallifrey.

This only leaves the "Rassilon Impermature", or the symbiotic link a Time Lord shares with his TARDIS. Under normal conditions, would a type 40 be linked with six Gallifreyans, or just the commander? It's impossible to know, but we do know that operating it with just one is okay.

Mark

There's been talk about a 6 man crew being needed to operate a Tardis correctly going back long before the new series. However, I can't recall if it was ever mentioned on the show before.

I thought it was mentioned in a Patrick Troughton episode, but I can't remember which one.

Yeah, I mentioned that a couple of times earlier in this thread, but I can't recall the specific serial either. But I definitely remember The Second Doctor rushing around the console and explaining to the companions why he had to rush around.

Towing the Earth over a vast distance at faster than light speeds? My brain simply won't accept it. That scene will make me cringe until the day I die.

So, your brain doesn't break understanding how regeneration, the TARDIS work (both the mechanics of its motion and its interior), and so on? I don't think it's that much of a leap.

And the same argument gets trotted out again.

I have no problem accepting the fantastic. I've been a Who fan all my life for christ sake.

To me, the towing of the Earth (at FTL speeds, with little more than a shudder on the surface, etc) is in the same catgory as the Fifth Doctor's zero gravity cricket ball antics in Four to Doomsday - Yes, ok, it happened on screen, but I really don't want to think about it.

Fine, to each their own. I don't have a problem with the Four to Doomsday antics either. *shrug*

 

[jbny67]

I thought it was mentioned in a Patrick Troughton episode, but I can't remember which one.

Yeah, I mentioned that a couple of times earlier in this thread, but I can't recall the specific serial either. But I definitely remember The Second Doctor rushing around the console and explaining to the companions why he had to rush around.

I seem to remember that scene as well. It must be in one of the episodes that remain intact and not a re-con.

If I could find the time, I guess this will give me a reason to rewatch some of Troughton's episodes. But, by the time I find the right one, this discussion might be over and this thread dead.

 

[TedShatner10]

First of all, there were ordinary Daleks guarding the controls.

Secondly, we don't know the exact details of the "arrangement" between Davros and the Supreme Dalek.

Remember, the controls in the vault didn't seem to affect the Supreme Dalek.

The Daleks in the Vault weren't Imperial variants, but Davros still bred them from his own flesh, while during the construction of the Crucible maybe Davros wanted to be in charge of operations but then the Dalek Supreme sealed Davros inside his lair and took over - the Dalek Supreme himself is not slaved to the Crucible's systems like his minions.​

 

[David cgc]

I thought it was a mistake that Davros more or less endorsed the Doctor's reading of his arrangement with the Supreme Dalek. By accepting a subservient role (which he did, by reframing instead of refuting the Doctor's "pet" comment), he lost control of the room, and I don't think he ever really got it back, making him feel a lot less threatening than he should've been. Never mind that it doesn't even make sense. Sure, even if Davros could be overruled or ignored by the Supreme Dalek on his whim, he still rebuilt the Daleks, apparently invented the Reality Bomb, was reported to by the Supreme Dalek, and had a master control console in his room, suggesting he was the master who was in control. Davros was obviously at the top of the Dalek org-chart, and surrendering the initiative to the Doctor in that situation was uncharacteristically laid-back of him.

Towing the Earth over a vast distance at faster than light speeds? My brain simply won't accept it. That scene will make me cringe until the day I die.

Okay, I realize this is a brainstem reaction that can't really be argued with but, still, how in the hemorrhaging hell do you think the Earth got into that predicament in the first place? How is an entire planet going from the solar system to the Medusa Cascade all right, but passing through the points in between is totally bonkers? If anything, blinking around the universe instantly instead of moving in a vaguely conventional manner is more absurd and unbelievable.

It's like saying it's perfectly fine if a magician makes a rabbit appear on a table in a puff of smoke, but not if he pulls the rabbit out of his hat, because any idiot can see the rabbit couldn't fit in the hat. Yeah, but the rabbit sure as hell isn't hiding inside of a smoke bomb, either. It's cognitive dissonance.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

Here's the question, though? Would Rose even WANT to stay in our universe, given that our Earth is smoldering wreck at the moment? Also, she's listed as "dead" in our universe, while she has a job and a father and baby brother in the parallel universe. Given the choice between our not-so-great Earth vs the parallel Earth, I think she would have gone with the parallel Earth.

I'm pretty sure that she did not want to stay on Earth and get a job, but resuming to travel with the doctor.

 

[Saul]

I'm really goiong to miss WILF and Donna. They owned this show.
I thought the conclusion wasn't as good as last weeks build up but I still enjoyed it. However someone speculated in last weeks threat that the Doctor would use his hand to regenerate himself and a clone of himself would go live with Rose. A very spoilerish speculation there.

I thought there would be some kind of Bigger revelation with the Red Dalek beyond him taking control. Poor Donna though, that scene was heartbreaking along with what WILF said to the Doctor and the last moments of the rain soaked Doctor in the Tardis by himself made this a great episode.

 

[Australis]

Ah, that's what I was trying to get to! If a race can manipuilate black holes, then flying a shielded planet across the galaxy is peanuts.

But the population would have frozen to death in deep space with no sun to warm the planet. Space is COLD, absolute zero COLD. That is my gripe with that scene, not necessarily the TARDIS towing the planet bit.

Gaak! Right at the start of that scene the Doctor says something like "atmospheric shield in place and holding". Shield.

And MisterGaribaldi, I finally cracked why you don't get it. As we're often told... size doesn't matter (well, I've never told that, but you know what I mean ). The TARDIS is small on the outside but is actually a pretty mighty vessel that would look quite large without its chameleon circuit. As I said, built by a people that manipulate black holes. What's not to get?

 

[Brent]

There is one thing I didn't quite grasp or understand in the episode. Why was it required for Donna to touch the hand for it to regenerate a doctor out of it?

I get that the remainder of his regeneration energy went into the hand, ok, fine. What I don't get is why when Donna touched it, at that moment, it was able to regenerate a new body. What was special about Donna that made it regenerate? What did it need that she had?

anyone?

 

[Messianni]

There is one thing I didn't quite grasp or understand in the episode. Why was it required for Donna to touch the hand for it to regenerate a doctor out of it?

I get that the remainder of his regeneration energy went into the hand, ok, fine. What I don't get is why when Donna touched it, at that moment, it was able to regenerate a new body. What was special about Donna that made it regenerate? What did it need that she had?

anyone?

More than likely her biological data worked as a way to "patch any holes" in the data that was needed to rebuild The Doctor, almost acting like a biological surrogate. There was missing information and she completed it.

 

[CaptainWacky]

I wonder how many people died in the earthquakes when the TARDIS was towing the Earth home?

 

[DAK]

Ah, that's what I was trying to get to! If a race can manipuilate black holes, then flying a shielded planet across the galaxy is peanuts.

But the population would have frozen to death in deep space with no sun to warm the planet. Space is COLD, absolute zero COLD. That is my gripe with that scene, not necessarily the TARDIS towing the planet bit.

Gaak! Right at the start of that scene the Doctor says something like "atmospheric shield in place and holding". Shield.

Did he? See, I only heard about half the dialogue, they were talking so fast (plus those Brit accents are hard to understand sometimes! ). Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Cutter John]

More than likely her biological data worked as a way to "patch any holes" in the data that was needed to rebuild The Doctor, almost acting like a biological surrogate. There was missing information and she completed it.

Which is interesting since the last Dalek back in season 1 did pretty much the same thing with Rose to restore itself.

 

[Timby]

I'm going to have a quote a poster from Something Awful that best sums up my thoughts on this episode:

Some of the comments in this thread are akin to coming home to find someone has snuck in and taken a huge watery shit in the middle of the living room carpet and your responses being "Oh my GOD; sweetcorn! Why sweetcorn?"

There's shit everywhere people, the nature of the foodstuffs is irrelevant.

 

[Hobs202]

^ Great... but you've already stated your opinion once.

Also, will you admit that you were wrong about 1 Timelord per TARDIS?

It seems to me that's there proof that says the exact opposite. hahahahahahahahaha

 

[Timby]

^ Great... but you've already stated your opinion once.

And I stated it again.

Also, will you admit that you were wrong about 1 Timelord per TARDIS?

Yep, I was clearly off my rocker on that one.

 

[The]

So, does anyone think the Doc2 character was written for Chris Eccleston? I mean, RTD practically beats you over the head with it at the end when he spells it out for Rose. Also, watching his performance throughout the episode, Tennant really seems to be slightly mimicking Doc 9. Maybe that's the point? But, do you think he wrote this with the idea in the back of his head that he could try and get Chris back in for one finale? Watch Doc2's scenes and just replace him with Eccleston. Not to mention, the way he dresses. I don't know, am I reading too much into it? Or am I just reading something terribly obvious that no one has bothered to mention?

 

[ITL]

Ah, but he'd already regenerated into the 10th Doctor before the hand was cut off. So I see no reason for Ecclestoneossity to occur.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

So, does anyone think the Doc2 character was written for Chris Eccleston? I mean, RTD practically beats you over the head with it at the end when he spells it out for Rose. Also, watching his performance throughout the episode, Tennant really seems to be slightly mimicking Doc 9. Maybe that's the point? But, do you think he wrote this with the idea in the back of his head that he could try and get Chris back in for one finale? Watch Doc2's scenes and just replace him with Eccleston. Not to mention, the way he dresses. I don't know, am I reading too much into it? Or am I just reading something terribly obvious that no one has bothered to mention?

Hmm...I hadn't thought of that before. I can see what you're saying, but I don't think there's no way of ever telling for certain, short of Davies confessing.

 

[David cgc]

After I thought about it when the episode, I thought it would've been SuperCool if the Hand had somehow become the ninth Doctor. Technobabble it away with it's cells not having been locked on to the new body yet when it was severed, so when it was filled with regeneration energy it had to go to the freshest complete pattern in its cells, which was the ninth Doctor. Make it grow into Ten for a moment before he unregenerates into Nine, so Donna is open to the idea that this freaky naked guy in front of her is the Doctor.

 

[jbny67]

I just made a post in another thread about a detail that I quite liked about the episode that I forgot to mention here.

Did anyone else get a kick out of Sarah telling The Doctor about her son and then leaving him and saying "I'll explain later"? A line usually used by The Doctor on his companions.
A nice little role reversal.