Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!!!!)

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

And we are talking about a Fleet who feels that NOT sending Picard in to fight the Borg in 2373 was a good idea.
A Fleet who feels that NOT sending Odo, a political leader of a former dictatorship that is rediscovering itself and is in a unstable time of its existence and is in control of a massive fleet, back to where he belongs with a ship that could get him home quite quickly is a good idea. Waste of recources... Sending him back would be a gesture of good will towards the Dominion. Not sending him back could ultimatly send the wrong message about solids to the rest of the Link, if and when contact with the Gamma Quadrant is ever re-established.

Starfleet has made some pretty weird decisions before, why not now?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

But why now? You're just making random suggestions that even you admit make no sense. Why waste the effort?

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

But why now? You're just making random suggestions that even you admit make no sense. Why waste the effort?

Why not? Just some random musings about possible what if's? This forum is filled with them, from very serious ones to very light harted ones.
Heck, some of the longest topics in this forum seem like a waste of effort. I only thought it could be fun to look at this from every possible angle, no matter how silly they sound.

Not everything has to make sense, sometimes it's just fun to have some random thoughts, and think about a few 'what if..' situations. Just a bit of harmless sundayevening (probably still afternoon for you) musings.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

And we are talking about a Fleet who feels that NOT sending Picard in to fight the Borg in 2373 was a good idea.
A Fleet who feels that NOT sending Odo, a political leader of a former dictatorship that is rediscovering itself and is in a unstable time of its existence and is in control of a massive fleet, back to where he belongs with a ship that could get him home quite quickly is a good idea. Waste of recources... Sending him back would be a gesture of good will towards the Dominion. Not sending him back could ultimatly send the wrong message about solids to the rest of the Link, if and when contact with the Gamma Quadrant is ever re-established.

Starfleet has made some pretty weird decisions before, why not now?

I disagree about the interpretation of the Odo situation. The way I read the passage (I am nowhere near my book to review it) was that they did not have the resources right now to send him back. There are very few slip stream capable ships in the fleet, and a number of them are in the Delta Quadrant. Those that remain in the alpha quadrant are probably tied up in their own missions at the moment and can not be immediately cut loose to ferry Odo home. Also keep in mid that right now, Odo has NOT shared the current state of the Dominion with anyone in the Alpha Quadrant. They do not know that he is one of the FEW founders running it and changing how they do things.

Mike

 

[Deano2099]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Okay, but I just don't see why it would be a possibility. Why would Starfleet, who've already been running DS9 for seven years, suddenly change the rules just because a new physical station gets built? I don't see how you get from one to the other.

Two answers:

1) In the real world, people with agendas that have been somewhat controversial in the past often use big changes like this to push those agendas through. Maybe there was a desire in some parts of Starfleet to get rid of Quark's. I'd be surprised if there wasn't, frankly, given all that goes on there. But momentum meant that getting rid of it in the preceding seven years was more trouble than it was worth. But now an opportunity presents to do so. Much like how companies might use a re-structuring to rid themselves of troublesome employees.

2) An author comes up with a kick-ass story that requires Quark to stay planetside for a while.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

1) In the real world, people with agendas that have been somewhat controversial in the past often use big changes like this to push those agendas through. Maybe there was a desire in some parts of Starfleet to get rid of Quark's. I'd be surprised if there wasn't, frankly, given all that goes on there. But momentum meant that getting rid of it in the preceding seven years was more trouble than it was worth. But now an opportunity presents to do so. Much like how companies might use a re-structuring to rid themselves of troublesome employees.

But remember, the Ferengi Alliance is now one of the members of the expanded Khitomer Accords. So I really, really don't think the UFP would want to alienate their new Ferengi allies by taking action against the Ferengi embassy to Bajor. They need to hold onto every ally they've got right now, so that would be a self-defeating move on their part.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

And we are talking about a Fleet who feels that NOT sending Picard in to fight the Borg in 2373 was a good idea.
A Fleet who feels that NOT sending Odo, a political leader of a former dictatorship that is rediscovering itself and is in a unstable time of its existence and is in control of a massive fleet, back to where he belongs with a ship that could get him home quite quickly is a good idea. Waste of recources... Sending him back would be a gesture of good will towards the Dominion. Not sending him back could ultimatly send the wrong message about solids to the rest of the Link, if and when contact with the Gamma Quadrant is ever re-established.

Starfleet has made some pretty weird decisions before, why not now?

I disagree about the interpretation of the Odo situation. The way I read the passage (I am nowhere near my book to review it) was that they did not have the resources right now to send him back. There are very few slip stream capable ships in the fleet, and a number of them are in the Delta Quadrant. Those that remain in the alpha quadrant are probably tied up in their own missions at the moment and can not be immediately cut loose to ferry Odo home. Also keep in mid that right now, Odo has NOT shared the current state of the Dominion with anyone in the Alpha Quadrant. They do not know that he is one of the FEW founders running it and changing how they do things.

Mike

Hm... I suppose that makes sense taking in the resource aspect of it. But even if the Federation/Starfleet doesn't know he's one of only a few Founders left, he still is A Founder. I still think that a show of good faith against a former enemy is a good use of your resources.

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

I just don't understand why they called it an embassy instead of a consulate. Realistically, it makes more sense for foreign states to place their embassies on Earth and to call their diplomatic missions on other Federation Member worlds "consulates" rather than embassies. After all, it's not like India has an embassy to the City of Chicago.

^Again, it was already a Starfleet station for seven years. Don't confuse who built it with who runs it. If Starfleet didn't kick out the civilians during those seven years, there's no reason they'd do so now.

And really, we're talking about the same Starfleet that allowed civilians aboard its Galaxy-class ships. No reason they wouldn't have civilians on their space stations.

In fact, even the present-day US military has jobs for civilian personnel on its bases, though mainly for spouses of military personnel. So there's real-life precedent for it too.

From 2369 to 2376, it was never a Starfleet facility. It was a Bajoran facility, under Bajoran law and regulations, run by Starfleet.

No, it was a full Starfleet facility that was run with Bajoran permission on Bajoran territory, with Bajoran law still applying. A U.S. Air Force Base doesn't cease to be a USAF base just because it's hosted on foreign soil.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

No, it was a full Starfleet facility that was run with Bajoran permission on Bajoran territory, with Bajoran law still applying. A U.S. Air Force Base doesn't cease to be a USAF base just because it's hosted on foreign soil.

I'd have to check it out, but I'm pretty sure it was called a Bajoran facility on several occations.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

From Memory Alpha....

Type: Orbital Docking Station
Owner: Bajoran Provisional Government
Operator: Bajoran Militia
Starfleet

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

From Memory Alpha....

Type: Orbital Docking Station
Owner: Bajoran Provisional Government
Operator: Bajoran Militia
Starfleet

Right. Bajoran property, but operated as a full Starfleet starbase. To make a comparison -- Ramstein Air Base is still German territory even though it's operated as a full United States Air Force base.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Yes, like I've been saying, we're talking about two different definitions of "Bajoran station" or "Starfleet station" here. One is who built (or owns) the physical structure; the other is who operates the facility and sets the policies and practices that apply there. It's a mistake to confuse the two. The same station can be a Bajoran station in one sense but a Starfleet station in another.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

I know people who would love to be responsible for creating an in-universe legal document explaining the DS9 ownership/management relationships.

 

[R. Star]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Even as early as Past Prologue Sisko cited DS9 as a "Federation facility" when he was talking to the Cardassians.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

From Memory Alpha....

Type: Orbital Docking Station
Owner: Bajoran Provisional Government
Operator: Bajoran Militia
Starfleet

Right. Bajoran property, but operated as a full Starfleet starbase. To make a comparison -- Ramstein Air Base is still German territory even though it's operated as a full United States Air Force base.

I suppose I interpret it differently. When I see the first Operator listed as Bajoran Militia, and the second as Starfleet, it just comes across to me as a Bajoran facility. But I guess that the point you make about the Ramstein Air Base make sense.

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

From Memory Alpha....

Type: Orbital Docking Station
Owner: Bajoran Provisional Government
Operator: Bajoran Militia
Starfleet

Right. Bajoran property, but operated as a full Starfleet starbase. To make a comparison -- Ramstein Air Base is still German territory even though it's operated as a full United States Air Force base.

I suppose I interpret it differently. When I see the first Operator listed as Bajoran Militia, and the second as Starfleet, it just comes across to me as a Bajoran facility. But I guess that the point you make about the Ramstein Air Base make sense.

As Christopher pointed out, it's a trick of language. It's a Bajoran facility in the sense that it's the legal property of the Bajoran government and is sovereign Bajoran territory; it's a Starfleet facility in the sense that it is a full Starfleet starbase (albeit one that is operating on Bajoran territory).

In other words, there's a distinction between the physical station and the base that is housed on the station.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Right. Bajoran property, but operated as a full Starfleet starbase. To make a comparison -- Ramstein Air Base is still German territory even though it's operated as a full United States Air Force base.

I suppose I interpret it differently. When I see the first Operator listed as Bajoran Militia, and the second as Starfleet, it just comes across to me as a Bajoran facility. But I guess that the point you make about the Ramstein Air Base make sense.

As Christopher pointed out, it's a trick of language. It's a Bajoran facility in the sense that it's the legal property of the Bajoran government and is sovereign Bajoran territory; it's a Starfleet facility in the sense that it is a full Starfleet starbase (albeit one that is operating on Bajoran territory).

In other words, there's a distinction between the physical station and the base that is housed on the station.

Yeah, I get that now. To me, when the station is a Bajoran property, it's a Bajoran facility. But I see the difference you and Christopher were talking about.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

And we are talking about a Fleet who feels that NOT sending Picard in to fight the Borg in 2373 was a good idea.
A Fleet who feels that NOT sending Odo, a political leader of a former dictatorship that is rediscovering itself and is in a unstable time of its existence and is in control of a massive fleet, back to where he belongs with a ship that could get him home quite quickly is a good idea. Waste of recources... Sending him back would be a gesture of good will towards the Dominion. Not sending him back could ultimatly send the wrong message about solids to the rest of the Link, if and when contact with the Gamma Quadrant is ever re-established.

Starfleet has made some pretty weird decisions before, why not now?

I disagree about the interpretation of the Odo situation. The way I read the passage (I am nowhere near my book to review it) was that they did not have the resources right now to send him back. There are very few slip stream capable ships in the fleet, and a number of them are in the Delta Quadrant. Those that remain in the alpha quadrant are probably tied up in their own missions at the moment and can not be immediately cut loose to ferry Odo home. Also keep in mid that right now, Odo has NOT shared the current state of the Dominion with anyone in the Alpha Quadrant. They do not know that he is one of the FEW founders running it and changing how they do things.

Mike

Hm... I suppose that makes sense taking in the resource aspect of it. But even if the Federation/Starfleet doesn't know he's one of only a few Founders left, he still is A Founder. I still think that a show of good faith against a former enemy is a good use of your resources.

And I am sure they are willing to (unless the wormhole reopens) but it will take time to free up a ship to make a several week/month trip one way to the Gamma Quadrant.

The Federation definately wants to stay on good terms with the Domionion, but it might take time.

Mike