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do you think picard and riker ever had sex with subordinates?

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Captain Triggered

Captain Triggered

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men of power rarely don't use their position to procure intercourse with attractive women. i understand picard is as big a mary-sue as it gets, but he's not a monk.

is there any real life parallels to gather from? i doubt the navy has many female crewman on board. definitely not in a laidback, 50/50 type deal as on a starship
 
Calling Picard a Mary Sue because he actually practices what he preaches is a bit of a reach. There do exist men in real life who do not abuse their power, and even more in fiction.

Picard was heading down that road with Daren and Riker definitely did it with Ro in Conundrum, Beverly in The Host and Troi in between the movies.
 
What subordinate did Beverly do it with in The Host? :confused:
 
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JirinPanthosa said:
Picard was heading down that road with Daren and Riker definitely did it with Ro in Conundrum, Beverly in The Host and Troi in between the movies.
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I thought the whole point of "Lessons" was to explore how Picard handled the situation of being in love with a subordinate. His (and Daren's) decision at the end seems to point to the fact that he realized it wasn't a viable road for him. Now, as far as a one-night stand with a subordinate, I don't think Picard would go for that, for all of the problems it could cause.

As for Riker, I guess it depends on whether or not Troi in the movies is a subordinate, since the share the same rank. Though since Riker is the First Officer, so I guess it does count. Insurrection does seem to imply they did have sex. Of course we actually see them having sex in Nemesis as a married couple.

His reaction to Picard and Daren's relationship in "Lessons" seems to imply his concern that a relationship, at least, between a senior officer and a subordinate could lead to special treatment (or at least the expectation of such). Of course, that's an actual relationship and not a casual thing. Though the issue of wanting special treatment would still exist if they were just having sex, so I don't see him being in favor of it.

I do think it's telling that most of Picard's relationships (aside from Daren) were with women who were not in Starfleet. Again, the decision he and Daren reached seems to support why this is. Though, there's always Beverly, but for the sake of this conversation, I don't think there's anything in canon to support the fact that they had sex.
 
I hate it when people have this game of thrones expectation that every character be filled with vice or be morally ambiguous. Picard is a paragon of federation really Trekkian virtue a shining beacon of the Trek ideal out of universe and IU.

To some people that's a mary sue and for me that's awesome.
 
Voth commando1 said:
I hate it when people have this game of thrones expectation that every character be filled with vice or be morally ambiguous. Picard is a paragon of federation really Trekkian virtue a shining beacon of the Trek ideal out of universe and IU.

To some people that's a mary sue and for me that's awesome.
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i don't think of sex as a vice or as being morally ambiguous. i'm just merely curious if you people feel that captain picard, as a living legend in charge of such a high-status vessel, did what every male in a position of power since the beginning of time has done? between the 2 of them, how often do they have intercourse, once every 3 seasons? they would definitely be the highest profile pair of dudes to keep those virginal numbers.
 
Picard did have sex, but your talking about him abusing his authority and engaging in inproper conduct with subordinates. That sort of behavior is far beneath him.
 
Voth commando1 said:
Picard did have sex, but your talking about him abusing his authority and engaging in inproper conduct with subordinates. That sort of behavior is far beneath him.
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i didn't mean to make it sound like he should be some kind of powermad rapist. I've just never heard of someone of such status practically practicing abstinence. he's surrounded by fit, ambitious young women that view him as the peak of their entire social structure. it would be shooting fish in a barrel.

i would imagine sex would be alot more open in that era anyways? i imagine most human-to-human std's are a thing of the past, and that religious concerns have all but disappeared?

from what I understand, women in the military have a bad, bad reputation for "dating" around. although i conceed i have no experience in the military, for all i know that's heresay. they just didn't touch on sex very much in star trek. this is just immature speculation for my momentary amusement. kirk certainly got his but that was in the 60's. i was a child in the 80's, i'm not sure what the sexual climate was. they sure wrote picard as stoic
 
We did see Riker have several dates with woman but I think they were always wearing civilian clothes which brings up the issue of rank and civilians. Civilians aren't Starfleet officers but seem to be under the authority of Picard at times like a starfleet officer so i'm not sure how they would judge that.

If Picard had sex with Gunian for example would he have been out of line? Is their any lawyers aboard or some kind of civilian authority that doesn't answer to Picard and sort of represents the civilians.

Jason
 
Captain Triggered said:
i didn't mean to make it sound like he should be some kind of powermad rapist. I've just never heard of someone of such status practically practicing abstinence. he's surrounded by fit, ambitious young women that view him as the peak of their entire social structure. it would be shooting fish in a barrel.

i would imagine sex would be alot more open in that era anyways? i imagine most human-to-human std's are a thing of the past, and that religious concerns have all but disappeared?

from what I understand, women in the military have a bad, bad reputation for "dating" around. although i conceed i have no experience in the military, for all i know that's heresay. they just didn't touch on sex very much in star trek. this is just immature speculation for my momentary amusement. kirk certainly got his but that was in the 60's. i was a child in the 80's, i'm not sure what the sexual climate was. they sure wrote picard as stoic
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Why wouldn't he practice abstinence? At least with his subordinates? The man is of extremely high moral principle.
 
Because humans of the 24th century will have evolved to the point where they can keep personal and professional matters completely separate even when dealing with the exact same people in both of those realms. So relationships between subordinates and superiors will not be considered a big deal, or, indeed, as any kind of "deal" at all. Ethical concerns will be nonexistent. Today's primitive hang-ups and strictures should have no place among the advanced human species of the future.

Kor
 
Stephen! said:
Riker possibly did with Ro in "Conundrum"
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FTFY
DonIago said:
Except in "Lessons" I believe he does bend the rules a bit to Darren's benefit.
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It's been a while since i've seen that episode; but there is little indication that he solicited sex with her. It's meant to be obvious that they shared a mutual attraction which started to become a relationship; and it's certainly possible they'd slept together on a few occasions, but IIRC Picard broke off the relationship because it was becoming a conflict of interest.
shivkala said:
I do think it's telling that most of Picard's relationships (aside from Daren) were with women who were not in Starfleet. Again, the decision he and Daren reached seems to support why this is. Though, there's always Beverly, but for the sake of this conversation, I don't think there's anything in canon to support the fact that they had sex.
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The fact that he and Beverly were married and divorced in an alternate future strongly suggests they did have something at some point. There's an episode where he and Crusher are trapped in an alien prison and start to develop "feelings." Picard is too self-righteous to try and coerce a subordinate into a relationship, but Crusher hardly seems to think herself subordinate to him.
 
Whether sexual or not, the relationship was inappropriate. This was evidenced when Riker becomes uncomfortable saying "no" to a request by Daren because he knows she's the Captain's girlfriend. That implies that:
1) their relationship is at least somewhat public knowledge
2) that it influences how people interact with Daren and her dynamic with the rest of crew

Even the mere perception of favorable or inequitable treatment, real or not, is a problem.

Another telling moment is when Picard and Daren are having a personal conversation in the turbolift when another crew member enters and Picard suddenly does a 180 and completely changes to the conversation to a strictly professional one. That's a sign right there, if he feels the need to "hide" something, then that's because he knows it's wrong.

Kor said:
Because humans of the 24th century will have evolved to the point where they can keep personal and professional matters completely separate even when dealing with the exact same people in both of those realms. So relationships between subordinates and superiors will not be considered a big deal, or, indeed, as any kind of "deal" at all. Ethical concerns will be nonexistent. Today's primitive hang-ups and strictures should have no place among the advanced human species of the future.

Kor
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Except for the fact that at the end of the episode, Daren transfers off of the ship specifically because both her and Picard realize that they CAN'T keep personal and professional matters separate. So no, clearly humans haven't evolved past that, since that was the entire point of the episode. Hence why it is grossly inappropriate and unethical for a captain of a ship to get romantically involved with a member of his or her crew.

In today's U.S. Navy, that behavior would get a ship captain fired from their command and end their career.
 
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