Yeah, the problem wasn't showing the crew's relationship with their families, it was that it was poorly written. Other shows have managed to make it compelling. Star Trek can do the same with the right writers.
Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?
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I quiet liked 'Family' and most of the Sarek/Amandas appearances - I even have a soft spot for Sybok. I also wouldn't say that I thought all the romances sucked ass, just most of them.
Whatever Keiko's flaws, without her we wouldn't have had Midwife Worf.
Whatever Keiko's flaws, without her we wouldn't have had Midwife Worf.
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As said above, stories about Sisko's personal life weren't bad, but the Keiko/Miles relationship seemed to consist of her nagging and stopping Miles having fun, which was dispiriting. The Worf/Alexander stories seemed to pop up at random, and the only one of interest was when Alexander served on a Klingon ship (unless I've totally misremembered that - it's been a while). The Worf/Jadzia relationship was potentially interesting, but seldom "popped".
I think writers need to remember that relationship stories, like any other kind of story, need excitement, some humour, and change (or, if the end result is stasis, there still needs to be a reward such as a joke or the feeling we've learned something). I don't want to feel I'm trapped in a room with these people.
But not unlike a lot of marriages.
Even the Tom/B'Elanna marriage kinda went that way.
The relationship between Bashir and his parents fit the episode in which Bashir''s augmented status is revealed. But that relationship was important to the plot.
The thing I liked about T/B relationship was they weren't joined at the hip. They had their own stories while at the same time the writer's would have scenes or lines of dialogue here and there to remind us they were together.
Oh come on, there is always something in between. It's just that most of that family stuff wasn't very good to feel any desire for more.
That would be soap opera. Didn't Dynasty do that already?
Wouldn't that be cool? A man changing his sex and then his wife will have a lesbian relationship with her. That would be cool with the 15 year old teenagers too. Include the soap chamber from Enterprise and boost the ratings!
Seriously: being in the wrong body is a rather complicated matter and I don't have much convidence that CBS will do it rightly.
Either they will approach it like "it's still a problem in the 23rd century" or they will make a joke or a petty inconvenience out of it. I don't want to see both. I know several transsexual people and it's not a topic for a b-arc in an US american scifi-show. So I don't watch Star Trek to see how transsexuality effects the life of a starship crew in the 23rd century.
What do they do? When the crewmember comes out they send him to the ship's councellour, who then decides if it's just a "phase" or not? Or do they do simply a scan? Or do they do it like they do it today? First hormonal changes till the sex change can finally be done?
In Germany you have to wait several years to get through the whole process because the people need time to overcome the slightest doubt. Will that be show like it's in reality today and crewmen ask "Do you still have your penis?" Or will they say "hey, we are so advanced, no problem, we can try it." "What was you first name when you were a boy?"
Yes, as I said there is something in between. The story about Sisko's family were nice. But most of the family stuff was rather awkward. Like Picard's family with the cheesy Nexus phantasy. Worf's arc was still boring.
I don't think technology would eliminate the need for counselling in those situations. But as far as the actual change goes, shouldn't they be able to just run someone through the transporter while using the pattern buffer to modify the relevant genes? I mean, if a similar alteration can turn Picard and Guinan into kids (accidentally) and back (on purpose), then surely doing it for a gender reassignment should be no problem.
Oh yes, Starfleet drags their personal to counseling for every boring work stuff but a sex change - a decision of the upmost impact on your life - is something you do at home in the 23rd century? If they approach it like this they should better leave their hands off it.
Like they did it with Pike and with Geordie's eyes?
You could not see the tongue planted firmly in my cheek as I typed that part. I liked that episode overall, but the idea that the transporters work like that is silly.
No I did not see that, sorry. I ignore those almost like magical moments in Star Trek too.
Beaming yourself back in a child's body might be nice every 70 years or so though. And the question comes to mind what pracitical uses the Tuvix-feature of a transporter might have in daily life.
I think you can and should include an LGBT character, a new series should try to introduce new kinds of characters.
It can always be difficult for Trek or another futuristic Sci-Fi series to try to address contemporary issues while still being believably set hundreds of years in the future (certainly there's much disagreement among Trekkies about whether the relatively contemporary original series crew or more idealized TNG+ crew is a better depiction of the future, although many also like both). Along those lines,
Rather than directly have an anti-LGBT person, you could have at least two Earth-religion characters, one following very much humanistic interpretations and one favoring more literal interpretations, that could show that conservative thought still exists but even it has significantly mellowed out and is capable of working with others.
It's interesting that Trek has had some racist/speciesist/prejudiced characters before without it being major parts of the shows (Styles in a guest role against Spock, Kirk against Klingons in TUC, Torres and O'Brien against the Cardassians although the latter two or three characters had pretty mild forms of prejudice).
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I don't see how the unwilling kiss between Kirk and Uhura is that much bolder than what was in the spin-offs. There's not a whole lot that's radical (the shows obviously generally attempted to appeal to broad audiences and alienate few) but you can be liberal and even progressive without being radical.
It can always be difficult for Trek or another futuristic Sci-Fi series to try to address contemporary issues while still being believably set hundreds of years in the future (certainly there's much disagreement among Trekkies about whether the relatively contemporary original series crew or more idealized TNG+ crew is a better depiction of the future, although many also like both). Along those lines,
Rather than directly have an anti-LGBT person, you could have at least two Earth-religion characters, one following very much humanistic interpretations and one favoring more literal interpretations, that could show that conservative thought still exists but even it has significantly mellowed out and is capable of working with others.
It's interesting that Trek has had some racist/speciesist/prejudiced characters before without it being major parts of the shows (Styles in a guest role against Spock, Kirk against Klingons in TUC, Torres and O'Brien against the Cardassians although the latter two or three characters had pretty mild forms of prejudice).
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I don't see how the unwilling kiss between Kirk and Uhura is that much bolder than what was in the spin-offs. There's not a whole lot that's radical (the shows obviously generally attempted to appeal to broad audiences and alienate few) but you can be liberal and even progressive without being radical.
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I disagree, YMMV.
I personally like soap operas, daytime/nighttime. So to me term "soap opera" is not a derisive one, it's a type of format that features peoples lives, and not just events.
For a future Star Trek to include "soap opera" would be a benefit.
Admittedly not a given. But with the alternative being nothing at all, I would perfer to take the risk, and suffer the consequences of a screwed up plot arc. It would be like it's 1987, and TPTB excuse not wanting a gay character being "because we might screw it up."
I believe right from the start David Gerrold was pushing for just such a character.
Not all transgender transitions culminates in sex reassignment surgery, after a certain amount of mental wresting I personally decide not to have it.
Picard rejected it only because it wasn't real, but the family group did come from Picard himself, his desires.
Some people need it, some people don't. Having counseling be required will hopefully be omitted in the future.
I think there are advantages to it being a process, as opposed to a event.
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Returning to the subject of soap opera. More than a few fans "participate" in Star Trek by envisioning/fantasizing themselves aboard the ship, what it would be like living their lives there. It isn't just the mission of the moment, it's playing games in the rec room, conversing in TenForward, being on the holodeck, walking the promenade, interacting with the people we see on the show.
Regular everyday events.
Life, friendships, loves, romance, affairs, sex, play, eating.
All the stuff that'd be encompassed with Star Trek including more than a little "soap opera" in the mix.
ihno, your argument seems pretty self defeating. You're basically saying that because Trek is terrible in this area, they shouldn't bother to try and improve. Meaning they still will be failing to keep up with the times, except now it will be because of laziness and lack of ambition.
As far as we know, no one from previous series are going to be involved in creating the new series. It seems a bit shaky to be citing their work as the precedent for 'why this new series will not handle 'blah' well.' 'Trek' itself does not determine the type and quality of its content, writers/directors/producers do.
Soap operas are not inherently bad - they're just serialised drama with a focus on the various relationships between characters (and used to be funded by soap companies). You can see a lot of the same elements in 'higher class' fare like GoT, House of Cards, I, Claudius, BSG, The Walking Dead etc. Or even, you know - DS9 and VOY.
As far as we know, no one from previous series are going to be involved in creating the new series. It seems a bit shaky to be citing their work as the precedent for 'why this new series will not handle 'blah' well.' 'Trek' itself does not determine the type and quality of its content, writers/directors/producers do.
Soap operas are not inherently bad - they're just serialised drama with a focus on the various relationships between characters (and used to be funded by soap companies). You can see a lot of the same elements in 'higher class' fare like GoT, House of Cards, I, Claudius, BSG, The Walking Dead etc. Or even, you know - DS9 and VOY.
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Isn't Trek often referred to as a "space opera"? So ... yeah.
I understand your position - I truly do - but I think it should be mandatory at least insofar as to have the pre-op person show up at a counselor's office and say, in person, "it's okay, I'm good". We all know that some people who need a doctor won't go on their own, and some people who actually *need* that counseling won't voluntarily go get it, either. Make them show up at least once, and maybe they'll take advantage of it.
I think the move is to remove transgenderism as a mental disorder.
I think in Trek's future it could be something identified in a medical scan. How it was treated is the part I'm unsure of. It might be something that's corrected in infancy or even the womb with no more prejudice than a cleft pallet. But considering that people today have very different ways of living as trans, I wouldn't want to say how it would or should be handled, just that it's something our society is evolving on and I'd imagine by the 23rd and 24th centuries they'd consider our approach to the issue to be barbaric.
As for the soap opera elements, Dynasty in space sounds like a lot of fun.
I think in Trek's future it could be something identified in a medical scan. How it was treated is the part I'm unsure of. It might be something that's corrected in infancy or even the womb with no more prejudice than a cleft pallet. But considering that people today have very different ways of living as trans, I wouldn't want to say how it would or should be handled, just that it's something our society is evolving on and I'd imagine by the 23rd and 24th centuries they'd consider our approach to the issue to be barbaric.
As for the soap opera elements, Dynasty in space sounds like a lot of fun.
Well Said, Sector!
Of course, emotional and psychological problems are not verboten in the story lines, and, when they have been done well in past iterations, they have been done very well. LGBT inclusion only offers even more good writing potential, more drama and human/other species issue stories, as we continue to explore the stars, as the Great Bird intended.
[roddenberry vision] singlehanded network battle [/Roddenberry vision]
Of course, emotional and psychological problems are not verboten in the story lines, and, when they have been done well in past iterations, they have been done very well. LGBT inclusion only offers even more good writing potential, more drama and human/other species issue stories, as we continue to explore the stars, as the Great Bird intended.
[roddenberry vision] singlehanded network battle [/Roddenberry vision]
Character drama, preferably of a kind the audience can empathise with, is important. If you only want 'exploring space', the TMP Overture exists in all it's dull (yet magnificent sounding) glory.
Look at the polls for the various series 'best episodes.' Even if you don't agree, you tend to see COTEOF, Inner Light, In The Pale Moonlight etc near the top. The extent of 'exploration' in those extends to 'found a macguffin in the first 10 minutes.' They're character episodes.
Even in TWOK, all that the characters 'find' is stumbling on a reused character in a place they'd already been. What do people remember from that movie? Spock's death and funeral, Kirk's vocal explosion, Chekov screeching as he gets a worm shoved in his ear, and Ricardo's monologues+costume. The character moments, plus the battles for those not too proud to say they enjoy some 'pew pew.'
None of which matters anyway, because the evidence that "transgender character = Star Trek Soap" is pretty damn flimsy.
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