Do you think George Carlin would be popular today if he was still alive?

[Awesome Possum]

They also update their material, allowing them to stay relevant. Seinfeld still thinks his "classic" material is still funny, he's essentially Krusty the Clown without the selfawareness.

Chapelle was a bit of an ass for his response to valid criticisms of transphobia, which his jokes were. I saw the specials where it came up. I find it about as funny as blatant racism which used to be dismissed as humor too. Transphobia is just still acceptable to some people, despite (or even because) it actually leads to the very real deaths of trans people. So I don't find it funny, the rest of his material was okay. He's nowhere close to where he was at his height.

 

[Lord Garth]

George Carlin was popular in the '70s, '80s, '90s, and '00s.

I don't see how the '10s would've been any different.

 

[Awesome Possum]

His later stuff wasn't as good, he'd been repeating himself to some degree. It was great, but he was doing the same act with different subject matter. He would've been good, but it wouldn't be his best work.

 

[Gov Kodos]

His repetitive stuff was still better than most folks do on their best days.

 

[Mojochi]

They also update their material, allowing them to stay relevant. Seinfeld still thinks his "classic" material is still funny, he's essentially Krusty the Clown without the selfawareness.

The point was the criticisms. Suggesting Seinfeld is irrelevant & outdated (I don't argue that really lol) doesn't detract from the criticism, when other relevant comics are saying it too

Chapelle was a bit of an ass.

You're aware that such is the entire lot of a comedian, right?

 

[Awesome Possum]

The point was the criticisms. Suggesting Seinfeld is irrelevant & outdated (I don't argue that really lol) doesn't detract from the criticism, when other relevant comics are saying it too

Maybe the college circuit is just dead.

You're aware that such is the entire lot of a comedian, right?

There's a difference between jokes and punching down on an already attacked community. His "jokes" are identical to actual attacks that people hear in real life. Sometimes before getting murdered, so that's the last thing they hear. It's hard to find something funny when you hear it constantly.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You're aware that such is the entire lot of a comedian, right?

No, it isn't. Not even close.

Some comedians do act like an ass during their routines. (Insult comedy is a well known art form, after all.) There are also those who are asses both on AND off stage. But there's also plenty of comedians who don't do it at all, or use it only sparingly. Hell, even Carlin wasn't always a grumpy old man...

 

[Mojochi]

Maybe the college circuit is just dead.

You may be right, but that in itself is indicative of something. When ever has it been the case that young people aren't a viable market for entertainment, especially when its as broad a market as Seinfeld, Chris Rock & Patton Oswald?

There's a difference between jokes and punching down on an already attacked community.

This notion of punching down, especially in the context of an African American, commenting on a transgender individual, both of whom know disenfranchisement, is a dubious one, because it intimates some sort of social injustice pecking order, which in itself is disparaging, because how is that pecking order decided, by who gripes the most to the ruling class controlled media outlets, & in turn is granted biggest loser status? It's an offensive & preposterous notion imho

But more importantly in Chapelle's individual case. He is not making his comments in a superior context. It is nearly always a reflection of his own struggle to evolve. He is supposed to look like a dolt. He embraces being the clown

Ultimately, no one ever promised comedic social commentary was going to be easy. It should be hard. It doesn't work if it isn't & IMHO it's very necessary as a salve & lubricant, to ease painful subjects into the spotlight, where otherwise it might go deliberately unspoken for far longer.

We need people who poke at the tender spots & make light of things that hurt, or they never stop hurting

No, it isn't. Not even close.

Some comedians do act like an ass during their routines. (Insult comedy is a well known art form, after all.) There are also those who are asses both on AND off stage. But there's also plenty of comedians who don't do it at all, or use it only sparingly. Hell, even Carlin wasn't always a grumpy old man...

But he had always made an ass of himself, in one way or another. Look, if you're schlepping for yucks, you are by nature, not behaving in a mature manner. You are quite literally a clown.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You may be right, but that in itself is indicative of something. When ever has it been the case that young people aren't a viable market for entertainment, especially when its as broad a market as Seinfeld, Chris Rock & Patton Oswald?

Younger people seem more interested in getting comedy in different ways.

This notion of punching down, especially in the context of an African American, commenting on a transgender individual, both of whom know disenfranchisement, is a dubious one, because it intimates some sort of social injustice pecking order, which in itself is disparaging, because how is that pecking order decided, by who gripes the most to the ruling class controlled media outlets, & in turn is granted biggest loser status? It's an offensive & preposterous notion imho

He’s cisgender and cis people hold more power than trans people. I really don’t want to get into figuring out pecking orders, but I do find it funny that it’s only brought up by those in power in order to dismiss any complaint or injustice.

But more importantly in Chapelle's individual case. He is not making his comments in a superior context. It is nearly always a reflection of his own struggle to evolve. He is supposed to look like a dolt. He embraces being the clown

I heard his material and you don’t get to judge what is and isn’t transphobic.

Ultimately, no one ever promised comedic social commentary was going to be easy. It should be hard. It doesn't work if it isn't & IMHO it's very necessary as a salve & lubricant, to ease painful subjects into the spotlight, where otherwise it might go deliberately unspoken for far longer.

Is having to treat trans people with a given amount of respect and not call them delusional that painful?

We need people who poke at the tender spots & make light of things that hurt, or they never stop hurting

Yes, at things that affect our lives or people in power. Not the very existence of a minority group.

But he had always made an ass of himself, in one way or another. Look, if you're schlepping for yucks, you are by nature, not behaving in a mature manner. You are quite literally a clown.

Thats not the way he framed it. Please don’t act like I haven’t seen his material over the years.

 

[Spot261]

This notion of punching down, especially in the context of an African American, commenting on a transgender individual, both of whom know disenfranchisement, is a dubious one, because it intimates some sort of social injustice pecking order, which in itself is disparaging

Not really, being a member of one socially excluded group does not give you free reign to abuse another group. Arguably most people can claim to be somehow disadvantaged and make a legitimate case on social or economic grounds, that doesn't make the experience of others any less valid, nor does it give one license to perpetuate that abuse.

 

[Mojochi]

He’s cisgender and cis people hold more power than trans people. I really don’t want to get into figuring out pecking orders, but I do find it funny that it’s only brought up by those in power in order to dismiss any complaint or injustice.

He's black, & if the trans person was white does this power dynamic still hold, or him being a black man taking a shot at white women (Which was a topic broached.) Or a gay comic taking a shot at Native Americans, etc...

My only point is power is not absolute, or fixed, & in only one modern day example, is it clearly defined enough to be universally agreed upon. Are we literally going to dissect every microscopic degree of power struggle & historical disparity for every group, who might take offense at something, so to rank who can take shots at who? Or can we expect that life is messy, & maybe, going forward, we grow some thicker skin? or the more commonly developing option 3, no one is ever able to take a shot at anyone that might be offended, because that is pretty debilitating to comedic social commentary imho

I welcome any replies, but I really have nothing more to add, so I should probably bow out now

 

[Awesome Possum]

He's black, & if the trans person was white does this power dynamic still hold, or him being a black man taking a shot at white women (Which was a topic broached.) Or a gay comic taking a shot at Native Americans, etc...

My only point is power is not absolute, or fixed, & in only one modern day example, is it clearly defined enough to be universally agreed upon. Are we literally going to dissect every microscopic degree of power struggle & historical disparity for every group, who might take offense at something, so to rank who can take shots at who? Or can we expect that life is messy, & maybe, going forward, we grow some thicker skin? or the more commonly developing option 3, no one is ever able to take a shot at anyone that might be offended, because that is pretty debilitating to comedic social commentary imho

I welcome any replies, but I really have nothing more to add, so I should probably bow out now

Oh please. I have to deal with more bullshit than you could imagine and I manage to put up with it and stay fairly positive. That’s with two out of three branches of my government trying to pass laws to erase what little rights I have left. I also put up with my life becoming the fodder for a shitty insult from a washed up comedian. I’m free to criticize him all I want and you haven’t even addressed a single one. Just the same old tired bullshit about how I should be able to take a joke and other old cliches. Have you ever read my criticisms or were you too busy dismissing them without thinking? A joke should at least try to be funny. It may not land, but there should be an attempt. But that wasn’t a joke. It was Dave having a minor panic over trans people existing and how he doesn’t think he should be forced to go along with their “delusion”. Can you point to the joke? You seem to think you know a lot about comedy, so where is it?

Maybe I should just grow some thicker skin.

 

[Forbin]

The motto on the dedication plaque:

“The galaxy is just a place for your stuff.”

OMG, that's brilliant!!

 

[TommyR01D]

I must correct my earlier comment:

It turns out that the fourth horseman is actually Daniel Dennett. Carlin's religious stance is subject to dispute, with some evidence that he was agnostic or deist. He sometimes worshiped the sun and other times Joe Pesci.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Carlin’s early years, when he was the button-down suit-wearing clean-shaven straight jokester, are underrated. Some of my favorite routines of his (such as the Indian Sergeant) come from that era.

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[suarezguy]

Carlin's attitude that both sides are bad, even with more hostility against one, would probably be attacked as not ideological or radical enough or, of course, of drawing FALSE EQUIVALENCE!!!!!!11!!!!!!1!!!.

He would probably be considered just a more-talented but grumpier Bill Maher, not particularly popular, pretty divisive and only a faction of a faction (the left-of-center?) liking him a lot.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That's true. He'd show no mercy to either ideology and so there would be Outrage! And Offense! And Blowback! And Backlash!

 

[gblews]

^ I don't agree. I think Carlin would still be raging against people being too sensitive, but I also believe he'd be all over the current administration and majority in Congress. Carlin was around when things were pretty tame and certainly conventional. From a political standpoint, things have never been the way they are now.

Carlin, who railed relentlessly against hypocrisy, like all of us, would never have seen anything like what is going on now. I think he'd be apoplectic about the current state of America and I think for this reason, his ire would be turned almost exclusively in one direction.

 

[RJDiogenes]

No, I don't think that would be possible for him. He 'd be taking everybody to task for their role in creating the current catastrophe.