Do you think George Carlin would be popular today if he was still alive?

[Boomstick]

Chapelle is singularly unique, because who the fuck walks away from a million dollar tv show, because of integrity, in an industry nearly bereft of it, & survives to make a comeback? It's unheard of.

I agree Chappelle is unique. But I think we're underestimating how unique Carlin was as well, despite the content of a lot of his work, his aim was never just shock and button pressing. I think he could brave the contemporary landscape. He received loads of backlash in his day, it's just harder to see that now that he's a beloved, deceased figure.

 

[Mojochi]

I agree Chappelle is unique. But I think we're underestimating how unique Carlin was as well, despite the content of a lot of his work, his aim was never just shock and button pressing. I think he could brave the contemporary landscape. He received loads of backlash in his day, it's just harder to see that now that he's a beloved, deceased figure.

Here's the thing. The landscape has shifted. He got backlash in his day, yes, but it was always the conservative, uptight fringe, which actually helped someone's trajectory in the mainstream. Today it's the liberal totalitarian mob that does the most censoring, & it's supported by the vast majority of the media. It's the people who ought to be the most free thinking that are slamming the door on freedom of expression. That's a new dynamic he'd absolutely detest, & do I think he could survive it? yeah, probably, because he was already old, & took shit from no one

But the question to ask isn't how would he fare if he was still hanging around after all his years, but instead... If George Carlin were starting out today, doing the kind of material he is most famous for, would he have a chance in this climate? I'm not sure he would. He gets pushed to the side, like a Jeselnik or Jeff Ross imho

 

[Boomstick]

Here's the thing. The landscape has shifted. He got backlash in his day, yes, but it was always the conservative, uptight fringe, which actually helped someone's trajectory in the mainstream. Today it's the liberal totalitarian mob that does the most censoring, & it's supported by the vast majority of the media. It's the people who ought to be the most free thinking that are slamming the door on freedom of expression. That's a new dynamic he'd absolutely detest, & do I think he could survive it? yeah, probably, because he was already old, & took shit from no one

But the question to ask isn't how would he fare if he was still hanging around after all his years, but instead... If George Carlin were starting out today, doing the kind of material he is most famous for, would he have a chance in this climate? I'm not sure he would. He gets pushed to the side, like a Jeselnik or Jeff Ross imho

I agree that the landscape has shifted. I just don't think the backlash has that much power, especially against someone as sharp as Carlin, at most it would amount to periodic, borderline manufactured controversies that would be forgotten about within a week.

I just don't see people getting particularly marginalised for their opinions. You say he would get "pushed to the side, like a Jeselnik or Jeff Ross." Jeselnik and Ross are both huge comedians who have had their own shows on a big comedy network, Jeselnik was hosting Last Comic Standing, they have fanbases outside of their home country. How is that being pushed to the side?

Look at Stanhope/Bill Burr/Jim Jeffries they routinely sell out theaters globally. Up until the scandal so was Louis CK. Amy Schumer was probably the most famous stand-up around when her show was at its peak, her whole schtick started out with talking about dicks and dropping racial slurs. And a lot of mainstream blue female comedians have a similar act. Just because we now have prominent female/non-white comedians doing well and calling stuff out and we have internet complaining doesn't mean people like Carlin would be toppled by a shit-storm.

Here in the UK we have people like Roy Chubby Brown and Jim Davidson making a good living through comedy and they are straight up nasty racists. There's plenty of that lowest-common denominator ignorant bullshit coming from huge, money-making comedians in the US as well.

 

[Jayson1]

I actually think any negative feedback with comic's usually come around to help them unless they have done something really awful like sexual abuse. People sort of love going against the Status Quo. I listened to the "South Park" guys and one of the reasons they got a rep for sometimes being right wing on issues is because in their youth rebelling was being against Reagan. In Hollywood it was liberals. I think comic's do kind of enjoy pissing people off. When you listen to them their the biggest advocates against Political Correctness and have a kind of feeling that being able to insult someone doesn't mean you can't like them as well. I watched this interview with "Roseanne" and she said most of her fans for the new show were Trump and Hillary Clinton fans. Also one of her best friends is Rosie O'Donnell even though they don't agree on politics. It's a kind of interesting mindset. KInd of like how Bill Maher could be friends with someone like Ann Coulter and Seth MCFarlande. I think many of feel that if your able to be funny then or you can challenge them then they like and will respect that. I think fans also kind of respect and gravitate towards that kind of freedom. The freedom of not caring about what the internet thinks. The negative is I think this was part of Trump's appeal as well. The "Straight shooter" type can backfire on people as well. If the 'straight shooter" is a fraud yet people don't see it then you get issue's.


Jason

 

[TommyR01D]

I've always found it rather strange that Carlin, a foul-mouthed adult comedian and one of the "four horsemen" of atheism, was chosen to be the voice of a children's series written by a vicar.

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[Mojochi]

I've always found it rather strange that Carlin, a foul-mouthed adult comedian and one of the "four horsemen" of atheism, was chosen to be the voice of a children's series written by a vicar.

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[Ar-Pharazon]

"OK, playtime with the Cardinal is over"

 

[RJDiogenes]

Here's the thing. The landscape has shifted. He got backlash in his day, yes, but it was always the conservative, uptight fringe, which actually helped someone's trajectory in the mainstream. Today it's the liberal totalitarian mob that does the most censoring, & it's supported by the vast majority of the media. It's the people who ought to be the most free thinking that are slamming the door on freedom of expression.

You're absolutely right about this, but I just wish people would distinguish between liberalism and the Left Wing. Allowing the excesses of the Left to undermine liberalism is as bad as allowing the Right to co-opt patriotism. The fact is that, these days, the Left is just as conservative as the Right.

 

[Jayson1]

You're absolutely right about this, but I just wish people would distinguish between liberalism and the Left Wing. Allowing the excesses of the Left to undermine liberalism is as bad as allowing the Right to co-opt patriotism. The fact is that, these days, the Left is just as conservative as the Right.

I think the left is actually fractured. We re seeing the result of a lack of true liberal progressive leaders for what seems like almost half a decade mixed together with seeing the Republicans move more even more to the right and actually have success. The corporate sellouts like the Clinton's seemed okay back when the Republicans would have rejected someone like Trump. Now that we got a Right Wing problem like we haven't seen in awhile we are left with nobody knowing what to do so everyone turns to more PC simply because we don't have a better idea on how to beat them and so the leadership vacuum is filled by Internet fighting. People should really be pissed at those Reagan Democrats back in the day. Wasn't that kind of the thing that sort of spread like a virus slowly killing the party to a point where their seems to be no real opposition to the right anymore? People protest which is nice but if nobody in power cares or even needs their support then I really wonder how effective it is.

Jason

 

[Mojochi]

You're absolutely right about this, but I just wish people would distinguish between liberalism and the Left Wing. Allowing the excesses of the Left to undermine liberalism is as bad as allowing the Right to co-opt patriotism. The fact is that, these days, the Left is just as conservative as the Right.

Yes, but they're laying claim to progressiveness. Sorry, I should have said left. It's truly hard to tell the difference anymore

 

[RJDiogenes]

I think the left is actually fractured. We re seeing the result of a lack of true liberal progressive leaders for what seems like almost half a decade mixed together with seeing the Republicans move more even more to the right and actually have success. The corporate sellouts like the Clinton's seemed okay back when the Republicans would have rejected someone like Trump. Now that we got a Right Wing problem like we haven't seen in awhile we are left with nobody knowing what to do so everyone turns to more PC simply because we don't have a better idea on how to beat them and so the leadership vacuum is filled by Internet fighting. People should really be pissed at those Reagan Democrats back in the day. Wasn't that kind of the thing that sort of spread like a virus slowly killing the party to a point where their seems to be no real opposition to the right anymore? People protest which is nice but if nobody in power cares or even needs their support then I really wonder how effective it is.

It's been more like 20-25 years, really. When the Left abandoned liberal beliefs for political correctness, they began empowering the Right. And, of course, the hatefulness of the contemporary alt-Left drives recruitment in the alt-Right just as surely as alt-Right drives recruitment in ISIS. President The Donald isn't the result of the success of the Right, it's the result of the catastrophic failure of the Left.

Yes, but they're laying claim to progressiveness. Sorry, I should have said left. It's truly hard to tell the difference anymore

Yeah, but I think it's important to differentiate between what political groups say they are and what they really are. Patriotism and liberalism are good things, but the Right and the Left are killing us.

 

[Jayson1]

20 years is way to short of a time. Clinton and many Democrats wouldn't have been elected in the 90's if not for them basically agreeing that Reaganomics was a good thing. Many of them would talk fondly of Reagan. Hell even Obama once called himself a Reagan Democrat. I actually don't think Political correctness was much of a issue for a great chunk of time. I felt it created a since of civility between both sides in that you had a kind of basic idea on what seemed like a reasonable compromise on how to behave towards each other. Of course this allowed Republicans to also learn how to speak in code. I feel the breakdown started with FoxNews. All of sudden the need to play nice went out the window. It encourged the right to go more towards the right and so did many Democrats leaving anyone who still wanted to be a liberal isolated and outnumbered. Which means you then had to fight with the only thing you have since you got no power and that was speech. Which in turn helps create more republicans but then you had FoxNews and then later Trump taking it up yet another notch so now it's like the alt right has both the president,FoxNews and even the liberals helping create even more alt right types.
The one positive is alot of problems in our society has now been exposed that people thought had gone away or simply didn't care enough about so that has been one good thing out of it but we are kind of left without any strong leaders to do anything about it as well and supporters who never back down even over minor concerns. It's kind of hard to get ride of Trump when you can't get anyone on the other side to help because they feel like they are always under attack which of course I know we on the left feel this way as well with Trump but someone has to kind of be above it all at some point IMO. That's why I think people right now want basically someone who is able to unite people again. Obama could have so eaily been that person. I think the moment he hired Ron Emanuel was the first sign that maybe we weren't going to get the "Change you can believe in" TO me going after the 1% and the super rich would be something that really starts to fix things Hatred towards the rich is the one thing both sides have in common. Even half of Trump's appeal was people were foolish enough to think he was going to "Drain the swamp." The other half was the Nazi's but without people in the middle they can go back to being angry and impotent. Of course I also think once Trump is gone that will also have a calming effect but it's kind of hard to tell if the internet is going to allow any positive changes to ever happen. I think people take social media way to serious and nobody knows anymore who to trust to be honest with them when it comes to the news. PLus it does feed into the ego. If you got a Youtube site and you have followers that's kind of crazy. It's like a few steps away from becoming a cult. I don't think the average person should be looking at the people they are talking to as "their fans." It must create a distorted view on how human interaction should work.

Jason

 

[RJDiogenes]

Of course I also think once Trump is gone that will also have a calming effect but it's kind of hard to tell if the internet is going to allow any positive changes to ever happen.

This is true. The Donald is just a symptom. Whether he's gone in one, two, or six years, the social catastrophe that created him will still exist unless something is done about it. We live in a world of extremists who think that the most faux outrage wins them the self-righteousness sweepstakes.

 

[Jayson1]

This is true. The Donald is just a symptom. Whether he's gone in one, two, or six years, the social catastrophe that created him will still exist unless something is done about it. We live in a world of extremists who think that the most faux outrage wins them the self-righteousness sweepstakes.

I know but I think just getting back to the normal regular kind of hatred for the president which one side will have no matter who it is will be a improvement at least a little. If it's a liberal even some false hope has got to be better than what we got right now. Some actual Gridlock might be nice. One the biggest problems with Trump and his people are they are winning right now. Going back to a stalemate at least would provide some relief.

Jason

 

[Qonundrum]

Chapelle is singularly unique, because who the fuck walks away from a million dollar tv show, because of integrity, in an industry nearly bereft of it, & survives to make a comeback? It's unheard of.

After those "Little John" videos and "I'm ___ bitch" incessantly from the horrendously ghadawful season 2 (I'm not watching the bits and pieces of the unfinished 3rd season out of respect for him), I'd run away as well. Actors from the 1960s thinking their sitcoms were repetitive can't hold a candle to what Chappelle's team and staff kept having him doing.

Still can't believe the one sketch from season 2 was actually him and his higher-ups, but it was.

I'd still rather see all of Chris Rock's show released for home video.

Fix the problems? Carlin once said that he was just pointing these things out and that he wasn't one of the guys who claimed to have an answer for everything.

Anyone can say that. Many people still like to say "If you can't offer a solution then you're part of the problem", which has been told to me a few times so I have no qualms bringing that up right now. That and I'm just pointing that out. Now, a solution would be to brainstorm a solution no matter how whackydoodle. And I would agree, people who make a claim that if they can't offer a solution then they are part of the problem might be seen in an interesting light. Ask a hundred people for their take on something and you'll get a hundred thirty six responses and a lot of those will be duplicates.

I also had a few problems when he started becoming a little too curmudgeonly later on, but some of that has grown on me. Nevertheless, you can't beat the classic routines about the difference between football and baseball (already covered in this thread), stupid sayings ('Leave him alone, officer! He's legally drunk!'), dumb boys' names ('Hi, Kyle! I'm Tucker!'), and on and on.

I miss the guy. I always tell people he was my favorite philosopher, because, in many ways, that's just what he was.

Agreed.

 

[Mojochi]

Many people still like to say "If you can't offer a solution then you're part of the problem"

I've only ever heard it said "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" (Like John McClane in Die Hard lol) which hints that the problem is not enough people contributing to the existing solution

Your version sounds dismissive, that the overall problem is that you don't have enough people doing your thinking for you

 

[urbandefault]

I saw Carlin live in '84. He was still doing material from the 70s, including the "words you can't say on TV." By that time it had expanded to about 350. It was funny, but it was evident that he'd already hit the high point of that routine.

These days, the list would have shrunk considerably.

But today, I think, standup is a dying art. How do you challenge the status quo without offending those who are easily triggered? I have no idea. I wouldn't want to be a comedian in this country these days. Now it seems that it's all about making fun of Republicans and Conservatives, and much of that is just hateful and not funny at all.

So to me, the premise is flawed. Carlin was of another era, when people could laugh at themselves and others. We've evolved past that, it seems.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Jerry Seinfeld said that lately, his classic routines are falling flat, and getting tsks rather than laughs. People are getting too uptight these days. One of the roots of comedy is making fun of people, even in irreverent and sometimes tasteless ways. One of Sam Kinneson's biggest laughs ever was when he said (well, yelled) there wouldn't be starving people in Africa if they'd just "GO WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!"

We used to be able to laugh at ourselves and each other with some mutual understanding that certain humor is there to just poke fun, maybe raise a little awareness of our foibles, not to seriously insult.

Jerry's routines were cliched in the 90s and he's still doing the same basic act. The problem isn't that people are uptight, they just want something fresh and a sitcom star from the 80s/90s that his current target audience grew up watching and is still doing the exact watching isn't fresh. Other comedians are edgy and remain popular, it's mainly the older ones complaining about audiences. The problem isn't the audience, politics or anything else. They just moved on and the relics of the past don't like that.

 

[Refuge]

I've always found it rather strange that Carlin, a foul-mouthed adult comedian and one of the "four horsemen" of atheism, was chosen to be the voice of a children's series written by a vicar.

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I've never heard it 'American' before.

That's just weird.

 

[Mojochi]

Jerry's routines were cliched in the 90s and he's still doing the same basic act. The problem isn't that people are uptight, they just want something fresh and a sitcom star from the 80s/90s that his current target audience grew up watching and is still doing the exact watching isn't fresh. Other comedians are edgy and remain popular, it's mainly the older ones complaining about audiences. The problem isn't the audience, politics or anything else. They just moved on and the relics of the past don't like that.

Dave Chapelle is as relevant as any comic working, & he's been vocal about the overly sensitive culture. Bill Burr, Chris Rock, even Patton Oswald, all of whom have had Netflix comedy specials within the last year

Edit: Oh I forgot... They're also very funny lol