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Do you think "Discovery" will take more chances than "DS9." did?

I agree that Fuller being fired or being forced out is not a good sign that the show will be taking many chances. The Ironic thing is that if "Discovery" did take the 60's look and update it that actually would be more of a risk than simply trying to make the show fit the overall look of the Kelvin Universe.

Can a show really be bold if it does what everyone thinks it should do? I would argue that what they did with the current look is actually the safe choice when trying to bring Trek back. This is why I think that even if the show takes some risks they won't be any more risky than what DS9 did. I even think DS9 might have taken the even bigger risk by doing a space station that tries to break from the Roddenberry vision as much as possible at a time when TNG was a huge success and was headed towards the movies. People wanted more TNG and not something that was different.

Jason
 
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Decide for yourselves....
 
Favourite DS9 Scene, Jayson?

So many but I will name 5 starting with the one that I think best defined what "DS9" was all about:

1 The "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" speech to KIra in the "Maguis" 2 parter.

2 Aman Maritiza breaking down a crying and admiting to being a scared filing clerk at a work camp in "Duet"

3 Quark comforting Odo after he tears his quarters apart in "The Crossfire."

4 O'Brien and Bashir getting drunk and singing in their quarters in what I think was "Explorers."

5 Sisko giving a great counter argument in "Rules of Engagment" were he roots out the Klingon ruse of using a dead crew from another ship as a fake crew of the ship that Worf had destroyed. Usually speeches or more of a thing that only Picard can do well but he really did a great job in this case.

Jason
 
I agree that Fuller being fired or being forced out is not a good sign that the show will be taking many chances
Depends why he was shown the door. This time last year he was pretty heavily downing the Genes Vision(tm) kool aid and talking up Discovery's progressive message like the show was a fictional version of a Jeremy Corbyn rally. There has been suggestion from posters with connections to the project that he was proposing something along the lines of TNGs original pitch where the show is basically talking heads having moral conversations. Of course, we don't know how much truth there is in that, but I'm far from convinced we'd have got much 'taking chances' from Fuller.
 
I wish we knew more about what prompted the decision and what is going on behind the scenes.

I hope we have a writing staff that is the best it could have been.
 
Depends why he was shown the door. This time last year he was pretty heavily downing the Genes Vision(tm) kool aid and talking up Discovery's progressive message like the show was a fictional version of Jeremy Corbyn rally. There has been suggestion from posters with connections to the project that he was proposing something along the lines of TNGs original pitch where the show is basically talking heads having moral conversations. Of course, we don't know how much truth there is in that, but I'm far from convinced we'd have got much 'taking chances' from Fuller.

I never head that. I got say that would at least surprise people because I think most people would be expecting a high action show after the "Kelvin Universe" not to mention the amount of money being spent on the show.

I think that kind of show would proably more resemble something like "Supergirl" in this day and age and the issue's would be more specific and less general in how they were handled.

I'm sure I don't want a return to a heavy dose of Roddenberry vision but the studio rejecting it by maybe firing him also worries me because that could be seen as them wanting to dumb down the show which is also something I also don't want.

Jason
 
Moonves is still at the head, but has he adapted? He hates Trek from accounts. I watched the trailers again and just thought -- pedestrian.

There's a man in the UK who runs a very large, very profitable company. The largest in his field. A field he doesn't actually like and some would suggest he downright loathes.

Yet, he see's the market value and he gets it done with a smile and a full pocket.

If Moonves hates Trek or not, if pockets are full, he'll be happy.

Depends why he was shown the door. This time last year he was pretty heavily downing the Genes Vision(tm) kool aid and talking up Discovery's progressive message like the show was a fictional version of Jeremy Corbyn rally. There has been suggestion from posters with connections to the project that he was proposing something along the lines of TNGs original pitch where the show is basically talking heads having moral conversations. Of course, we don't know how much truth there is in that, but I'm far from convinced we'd have got much 'taking chances' from Fuller.

I don't trust the speculation. even with people 'connected', it's likely still speculation or one side.

I like Fuller's work, but the only way I see it is: Fuller was showrunner, things didn't progress as fast as they could. Fuller left the project, things got moving.

Speculation and theories are one thing - but thats the only thing we know to be true. I still find it odd that the fact we're moving steadily along is still covered with this suggested negative.

I'm sure I don't want a return to a heavy dose of Roddenberry vision but the studio rejecting it by maybe firing him also worries me because that could be seen as them wanting to dumb down the show which is also something I also don't want.

Like I said above - I don't believe the rumour mill (they make less sense than logical thinking) but its a bit hyperbolic to suggest such a change would be 'dumbing down'. Making osmething interesting on more than level is engaging, however it's spun. Too often the thought of making something accessable and entertaining is thrown into the 'dumbing down' category as if all Star Trek fans are on the same genius wavelength as Hawking.
 
Depends why he was shown the door. This time last year he was pretty heavily downing the Genes Vision(tm) kool aid and talking up Discovery's progressive message like the show was a fictional version of Jeremy Corbyn rally. There has been suggestion from posters with connections to the project that he was proposing something along the lines of TNGs original pitch where the show is basically talking heads having moral conversations. Of course, we don't know how much truth there is in that, but I'm far from convinced we'd have got much 'taking chances' from Fuller.
Completely agree.
 
I agree that Fuller being fired or being forced out is not a good sign that the show will be taking many chances.
Fuller being gone is not necessarily a bad thing, he's known for making quirky shows with a cult following but no show he did was actually successful. His longest running show by far was Hannibal with a whopping 3 seasons and 39 episodes and that only ran on critical darlingness and being dirt cheap for NBC.

Looking at his previous works he probably would have made a Star Trek that I like but not one that finds an audience.
 
I'm not saying it's certain that firing Fuller is proof that they trying to dumb things down. Just that's it's enough of a red flag to be suspicious. I actually like Orci because of his connection to "Lost" and NIck Meyer is supose to be connected to the show as well. I trust those 2 guys. Does anyone know anything about the 2 showrunners?

Jason
 
Does anyone know anything about the 2 showrunners?
I know their names are Gretchen J. Berg and Aaron Harberts, they worked on Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies, Revenge, Reign and others often as executive producers, so they do have experience.

Orci doesn't work on Discovery at all afaik and Nick Meyer's role is minor.
 
We know what it would have been, Shatner returning as Kirk Prime on a quest to restore the Prime Universe with Quinto Spock being conflicted between his loyalties to the Kelvin timeline and the chance to undo Vulcan's destruction.

So glad we got Beyond instead.
Oh wow. I missed that.
That sounds like so much fan wanking. Glad we got Beyond.
 
Oh wow. I missed that.
That sounds like so much fan wanking. Glad we got Beyond.

I like it. A few problems is why would anyone need to restore a timeline that hasn't been erased? Makes more sense if they were trying to create a alternate timeline though I got to admit I wonder why Prime Kirk would be involved in that at all.

I guess I just like the idea of old Kirk working with new Spock and I asume the new crew to try and save Vulcan. I do think prime Kirk though shouldn't be the star of that kind of movie. Shatner's role should be not all that different from Nimoy's was in the Kelvin Universe movies.

Jason
 
It might have worked if Kirk came over and thought he needed to fix something, only to realize that his world was still there in the end, but his Spock was dead (again).
 
Actually the suicide bombing on New Caprica was used against the police force the Cylons established consisting of humans loyal to them. Basically, Tigh sent a message that any human now working for the Cylons is considered an enemy of humanity.
Basically, Tigh was doing the work of the Cylon war machine for them in three ways:
1. By killing humans (as targets) - of which there are only some 30.000 left in total
2. By killing humans (by reducing them to "smart bombs") - including very skilled people like Viper pilots. The Raiders would like to thank Tigh.
3. By giving the most militant faction of Cylons more munition to simply use the nuke(s) - as they had done so often before - and end it.

Bravo Tigh. The guy, and everybody who worked with him on this to promote (or enforce, as it would happen in real life) this tactic, should have been shot for doing the work of the enemy.

What are you even talking about? Cain did not use civilian ships in suicide attacks. She stripped the civilian ships of any useful equipment, material, and components and abandoned them. She drafted anyone on them with skills needed as crew replacements on Pegasus. There were those who objected because they didn't want to abandon their families, so she ordered those families executed.
In the direct aftermath of the colonial apocalypse, Cain used the Pegasus to attack Cylon military installations, to strike back in any way possible (even though she knew Pegasus wasn't going to defeat the entire Cylon fleet by its lonesome). During one such attack, Pegasus walked into a Cylon trap and when her first officer insisted they should abort the attack (because it was becoming suicidal...) she shot him herself. The attack went on and the crew/pilots suffered severe losses. This was not represented in a favourable light, by the show.

On top of that, Cain did strip civilian vessels of equipment and personnel to keep Pegasus going, whereas Adama had made the choice (under the influence of Roslin, admittedly, as his first instict was to do more or less what Cain did) to try and save a part of humanity. This is understandable because Cain didn't have near the numbers that Adama had managed to get together (thanks to Roslin and to his friendly local Cylon infiltrator, ironically enough). However, it is still worth mentioning that Tigh also stripped the human colony and fleet of its human resources to use them literally as bombs. Even though New Caprica did have far more chances of survival than the few scattered ships that Pegasus encountered.


Cain certainly never used the Pegasus itself in a suicide attack. In fact, that was Lee Adama who did that liberating New Caprica.
See above. Lee Adama didn't do a suicide attack, he and everybody else on board survived it. Which is a bit of a cop-out considering it was under fire from several baseships while he was evacuating it, but sometimes characters had plot armour (like in any show).

It's clear you lost interest in the show, as you're not even remembering it correctly at all.
Remembrances can be coloured, yours are, too. Neither my nor your remembrance is necessarily "correct" in an objective way.

Don't get me wrong, NuBSG was a fantastic show from the miniseries through much of S2. But it suffered from its creators apparently lacking a clear (initial) vision past the Pegasus arc. Mysteries that they didn't know the answer too, shocks to be shocking. It was a shame.
 
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