Do you prefer a "small" or a "large" starfleet?

[Mr Silver]

I also vote for large. Even with thousands of ships... the galaxy is still a pretty big place.

Yes! And even then these ships only cover a small percentage of the Alpha Quadrant and a fraction on the boundaries of the Beta (although this is because of Klingon and Romulan territory being the dominant powers here).

Yes, and even then the Enterprise is always "the only ship in range".

Yeah i've never worked this out. Perhaps lots of other interesting stuff happens to other ships that are the "only ships in range" too and its just because the Enterprise is so prominantly featured. I mean look at all the crazy shenanigans that Voyager got up to?!

 

[Caesar753]

I think large is the way to go. The UFP covers such a vast amount of space that a fleet in the hundreds seems in order. I think it's easy to underestimate the distances involved in space, which are astronomical . From the point of view of exploration and defense, Starfleet would needs at least a few hundred ships to get its job done effectively.

 

[Nightdiamond]

But if Starfleet is large and has thousands of ships why couldn't they defend Bajor if the Dominion attacked the station?

Sisko admitted this to Kira and recommended her people sign a treaty with the Dominion because they couldn't protect Bajor.

 

[The Librarian]

But if Starfleet is large and has thousands of ships why couldn't they defend Bajor if the Dominion attacked the station?

Sisko admitted this to Kira and recommended her people sign a treaty with the Dominion because they couldn't protect Bajor.

Because it would need the ships elsewhere? Or, to reverse the question, if individual starships are so powerful and unique, why can't Starfleet defend Bajor?

 

[Kelthaz]

But if Starfleet is large and has thousands of ships why couldn't they defend Bajor if the Dominion attacked the station?

Sisko admitted this to Kira and recommended her people sign a treaty with the Dominion because they couldn't protect Bajor.

The Federation being large doesn't exclude the other races from being large (or larger) too.

 

[MacLeod]

Even with a fleet numbering in the low thousands, we are still talking about patrolling a vast region. And that's not counting the exploratory, scientifc, medical aid missions that they might be tasked with dealing with.

From DSN, it appears that some of the fleet is made up of the more obsolute classes of ships such as the Miranda and Excelsior Classes. It is also possible that the actual number of ships was swelled by the re-activation of ships that had been decomissioned (i.e the older Miranda and Excelsior Classes).

 

[Caesar753]

The United States Navy alone has nearly 300 ships in service. The entire Federation with only a few hundred ships stretches the suspension of disbelief a little too much for me.

That's a vote for large.

Exactly. The U.S. Navy has 286 ships in active service, all on Earth . If Starfleet had only a few hundred ships spread over thousands of lightyears, what would be the point? For the Federation's protection alone, I think Starfleet would need several hundred, if not a few thousand ships.

 

[Nightdiamond]

With all the older ships in the fleet, that always suggested to me that Starfleet may not be as industry rich as it is made out to be.

It seems like Starfleet can only spare a few ships in very tense situations.

Starfleet sent nine ships to help protect Bajor during the Battle of the Omarion Nebula.

Starfleet sent six ships to help during the Klingon attack ON Ds9.

In 2369, Vice Admiral Nechayev assembled a 15 ship fleet consisting of five task forces with the stated aim of defending Federation colonies from an anticipated second Borg invasion

.

That's like 3 ships per task force isn't it?

Unless Federation ships can last longer in a firefight against smaller multiple enemy ships, it seemed like Starfleet didn't have enough ships to go around.

 

[Anwar]

I think, until they met the Dominion, that Starfleet ships COULD last longest against multiple vessels. Then the Dominion changed all that, because before them the only ones capable of taking on multiple Fleet ships were the Borg (and that's because their ships are freaking huge).

 

[Captain Verata]

I don't think Starfleet needed an all upgraded combat fleet. At the beginning of TNG, the fleet they had was capable of getting the job done. Romulans have been silent, Klingons are buddies, Cardassians and Tzenkethi are no match for Federation in a head on conflict. They just felt they didn't need more ships or more advance ships to replace the ever present Mirandas and Excelsiors when they were doing just fine. Starfleet was probably stretched thin for awhile. Then the Romulans are back, the Borg show up, then the Dominion/Cardassian/Breen become an ongoing threat to very existence of the Federation. In that short period of time though we see many Akiras, Steamrunners, Sabers, Norways, Intrepids, Defiants, and even Galaxy class vessels become part of an ever growing advance fleet. I don't doubt the industrial might of the Federation when the times get tough.

In conclusion, Starfleet is large(as in probably in the thousands) but is stretch thin compared to its size and defense responsibilities. Losing 40 ships at once could mean an extra weak spot in their defenses. But like Commander Shelby said, easily replaceable within a year. Probably kept building up the fleet since.

 

[Paradon]

The might of the Federation depends on its economy as with any other powers. The economy depends on whether or not they have a lot of money; not because they have a lot of natural resources and the shear size the countries. If they have a lot of resources but only a few people are in control and no one is able to do anything on their own accord and can't spend most of the money they make, then the country will not prosper from it. Only the people know what is the best way to spend their money...whether spending on their own private businesses or investing in something that will help make them rich; and this all helps stimulate the economy. The U.S. didn't become a superpower because they had more natural resources and because it is larger than most countries; they became rich because the people here didn't have to wait for the government to tell how they should spend their money or when to start up their businesses and pay a lot of ridiculous start up fees. No! The power was given to the people to do what they wanted, when they wanted and how they wanted. They can do what they see fit to help them climb the social latter. Australia and Brazil are about size of the U.S., and the Canada and Russia are much bigger, but they're not superpowers. How well the countries do depends largely on the government infrastructure and how much economic freedom were given to the people.

 

[brian577]

The might of the Federation depends on its economy as with any other powers. The economy depends on whether or not they have a lot of money; not because they have a lot of natural resources and the shear size the countries. If they have a lot of resources but only a few people are in control and no one is able to do anything on their own accord and can't spend most of the money they make, then the country will not prosper from it. Only the people know what is the best way to spend their money...whether spending on their own private businesses or investing in something that will help make them rich; and this all helps stimulate the economy. The U.S. didn't become a superpower because they had more natural resources and because it is larger than most countries; they became rich because the people here didn't have to wait for the government to tell how they should spend their money or when to start up their businesses and pay a lot of ridiculous start up fees. No! The power was given to the people to do what they wanted, when they wanted and how they wanted. They can do what they see fit to help them climb the social latter. Australia and Brazil are about size of the U.S., and the Canada and Russia are much bigger, but they're not superpowers. How well the countries do depends largely on the government infrastructure and how much economic freedom were given to the people.

Assuming of course the Federation economy works anything like ours.

 

[MacLeod]

When we see smaller fleets number in the tens, rather than the hundreds, it could be that's all they could gather in the time they had.

 

[Anwar]

Remember, in BOBW the Borg Cube got all the way from one of the outermost Federation Colonies back to Earth in only a few days at most. Managing to gather 40 starships from all over an 8000 LY sphere is pretty impressive.

 

[T'Girl]

With all the older ships in the fleet, that always suggested to me that Starfleet may not be as industry rich as it is made out to be.

Assuming of course the Federation economy works anything like ours. .

Given it's large number of members and their distance from each other, likely the federation has hundreds (or thousands) of separate economies. Instead of one big one. But brian577 brings up a good point, if the federation's "economy" is different from ours to the point that perhaps it actually doesn't work particularly well, then the continued existence of ships in Starfleet that are several decades old begins to make sense. They can't afford to replace them.

Yes, a relatively small number of new ships are being constructed, Galaxy Class and the like. But it would be like if the bulk of the US navy were vintage World War Two ships and Cold War era ships, supplemented by a limited amount of younger ships. Shelby's statement of forty new ships in a year might be an indication of the federation's maximum ship building capacity.

In addition to the federation fleet, some individual members would also have their own, entirely separate, fleets. Capable of dealing with small problems like pirates and isolated BOP's wandering across the boarder. Some of the wealthier members, with large, wide spread colony systems, could have fleets of significant size. As the Dominion War continued, the expanding size and numbers of fleets could have been composed of, not only Starfleet ships, but members "home fleets."

A third group of ships might be a "mothball" reserve fleet.

That's like 3 ships per task force isn't it?

A task force can have two ships, or hundreds. Task forces are usually temporary formations. Once they've served their purpose they are broken up and new ones formed.

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In addition to the big, multi-mission, combat capable ships in Starfleet, there would be a fairly large number of specialty ships (thousands?), like support, science, cargo, passager, etc.

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps, the Federation didn't want to start an arms race.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The timing factor-Starfleet being able to assemble ships to match a threat on short notice.

I always thought Starfleet had large standing fleets that could assemble quickly rather than just sparing a few ships on short notice.

If they were watching Bajor during the "Dominion Cold War", it was assumed they could field a large enough fleet to keep the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant.

Instead it was the opposite-- they seemed to never have enough ships, to bother with it, and would rather collapse the wormhole, or have Bajor sign a treaty with the Dominion.

Maybe they were a little too complacent (at the time) to build more ships?

 

[T'Girl]

Maybe, while the wormhole was considered very important, in reality Bajor wasn't.

 

[Vanyel]

Collapsing the wormhole was a sound military strategy and should have been done instead of mining the wormhole. Once the Prophets closed the wormhole to the Dominion, Starfleet and the Klingons were given breathing room.

Back to the question, Starfleet should be large. I always though the loss of 39 ships being a major loss to be taken as Starfleet lost 39 ships against 1 enemy ship. That's a big moral hit to the fleet and the Federation. As has been said before, bringing the fleet back up within a year could mean that 39 ships belonged to one fleet, and if the fleet was only 40 ships in size, that's a tremendous loss. Rebuilding that fleet within a year would bee entirely feasible.

After the first Borg invasion, Starfleet would have to be stupid to not increase the size of the fleet. More ships means more to attack an invader and slow it down, maybe even enough to attempt to evacuate some of a planets population (Some meaning a few hundred to a few thousand people. I'm in now way saying they could evacuate an entire planet unless it's a small colony planet.) If the ship was again on track for Earth, evacuating the President and Council would be priority.

I'm getting way of track here aren't I?

Large fleet.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Collapsing the wormhole was a sound military strategy and should have been done instead of mining the wormhole.

I don't think that was an option after changeling Bashir's screwing up their last collapse the wormhole idea made whatever they had to get rid of to make it collapse stronger.