Do you prefer a "small" or a "large" starfleet?

[GotNoRice]

"Small" = small enough that a one-time loss of 39 starships (Wolf 359) was seen as a massive loss that took time to recover from.

"Large" = large enough that starfleet can lose hundreds of ships in battle after battle (dominion war) yet still remain a major power in the quadrant.

I'm not really sure where I stand on this.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think Starfleet should not be seen as puny in relationship with its stomping grounds - a whole quadrant of a whole galaxy. So I'd envision the fleet being in the thousands at least...

 

[Timo]

I think it's a dramatic necessity that Starfleet be puny in relationship with its stomping grounds - after all, it's never where it's needed, not until the eleventh hour, and even then it arrives with the strength of just one heroic (and often somehow handicapped) starship.

But a fleet of thousands would still be sufficiently puny in relation to the vastness of space, and would better match what we see on screen. So I vote for "large" while still presuming that it's a major effort to get 40-50 ships to meet with just a week's advance warning.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Avon]

there never where they're needed due to the script

 

[Finn]

Except during the Dominion War. They implied there were hundreds if not thousands of them....

 

[USS Triumphant]

I envision the Starfleet of the 24th century as having tens of thousands of ships - but also as perhaps being underpowered or just-sufficiently-powered from a military perspective. There's frequently a concern amongst the general public that a Starfleet that is too militarily powerful would provoke other civilizations, or might decide to take military control of the Federation. So the vast majority of those ships are small science vessels, supply vessels, system defense/customs cutters, tugs, etc.

On the other hand, I also envision something that has never really been shown canonically - that each Federation member world that can and wants to (Andor, for instance) has its own at least minimal defense force, both to defend their homeworlds from outside incursion, and, on some level, to defend their liberties from Starfleet! That force can probably be called up in emergencies, kinda like the National Guard.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Considering how big space is, I like to think "large", but with number of ships available at any given time dictated by plot. The 39 in "Best of Both Worlds" were all they could pull together on such short notice. In DS9, they knew trouble was coming much further in advance and had time to recall all their starships from the furthest reaches of space.

 

[Mr Silver]

Well the Federation apparently spans 8000 lightyears. If Starfleet is the military and exploration organisation of the Federation then we have to assume that there are ships spread throughout this distance.

Lets say that during the Dominion war there were several thousand active ships, made up of as many ships that they could call back from deep space and as many as they could rush into service. Now lets speculate that around a fifth of these ships suffered damage, were destroyed or decommisioned immediately following the war. The ships remaining would then return to their assigned missions, so from that we can assume that at any one time, Starfleet has a heavy presence in Federation territory.

Its also pretty logical to conclude that there would be ships based around the Romulan neutral zone.

 

[Shatnertage]

It's not the size of the starship, it's the motion in the ocean.



Or the yield in the warp field, as the case may be.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Small.

Dilithium is rare.

Big, strong ships need dilithium.

Therefore, big strong ships are rare.

Also, it's more interesting, because it's more limiting. Limiting is good, both for universe-building and storytelling. TNG/DS9/VOY-era Starfleet, aside from its conflict with the Dominion, has basically turned into a gigantic high-tech juggernaught.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Large.

It makes no sense for Starfleet to be the diplomatic/military/scientific/exploratory arm of the UFP and be a small organization. It would, simply from a standpoint of logical consistency, have to have thousands of starships and hundreds of thousands of personnel.

Something that has always bugged me about Trek is that it always seems that anyone with the rank of Captain or higher is literally on a first name basis with everyone else with a rank of Captain or higher. How can that be?

 

[Rojixus]

Spacebook?

 

[plynch]

Large.

It makes no sense for Starfleet to be the diplomatic/military/scientific/exploratory arm of the UFP and be a small organization. It would, simply from a standpoint of logical consistency, have to have thousands of starships and hundreds of thousands of personnel.

Something that has always bugged me about Trek is that it always seems that anyone with the rank of Captain or higher is literally on a first name basis with everyone else with a rank of Captain or higher. How can that be?

It can be, because it is small. That's how they all went to the academy with each other, too.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

At the beginning of TNG, things for Starfleet are relatively quiet. The Cardassian Wars are over, though there would still be a relatively large number of ships close by to monitor them. The Federation / Klingon peace treaty is strong and stable. The Romulans were in self-imposed exile, though when they return they are still pretty quiet--Starfleet would of course increase the number of ships on patrol along the Neutral Zone. And none of the other major races are that much of a threat.

On top of that, there does seem to be a lot of exploration going on at this time, as the UFP enjoys a period of peace and stability. The Borg were a major threat they had never anticipated until Q's intervention, Admiral Hanson even says that Starfleet wasn't ready for them when they do turn up. Aside from during the Romulan Wars (in the late 22nd Century) and then again not until the Breen join the Dominion War, Earth has never faced imminent danger from another species.

In the Dominion War the Seventh Fleet comprised 112 ships. At least ten Fleets were in service during the War (the Tenth being assigned to the Betazed Sector), if they were all of equal strength that would give Starfleet at least 1120 ships.

But that's just my rambling thoughts on the matter.

 

[Timo]

Dilithium is rare.

Only in TOS. It's never a crucial commodity in the 24th century; probably it can be replicated at will, or then otherwise industrially produced in quantity, reducing the mining industry to a mariginal one.

Still, building of new starships isn't trivial in TNG or DS9. Starfleet is shown getting many of its prototypes wrong at first, engaging in lengthy development and testing periods, and being "spread thin" at a time of relative peace when nothing should be placing competing burdens on the shipbuilding industry. We never learn that Starfleet construction would be staying apace with its losses in the Dominion War, either; all the ships seen on screen appear prewar, representing old design ideas and sporting low registries. So apparently Starfleet can't build ships rapidly be it peace or war.

Doesn't stop them from having thousands, tho. And that's "large" in terms of this poll, even though it's "small" in terms of the drama.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

The pursuit of scarce resources can increase drama and give motivation to villains. The Federation is big. Federation members should have ships of their own. Starfleet should have hundreds of ships, perhaps thousands, but few of those should be starships. Most should be smaller scientific vessels, medical ships, cargo vessels, personnel transporters etc. Starships should be spread thinly otherwise we'd never have 'the only ship in the quadrant'.

I do think they should make more of automated defences around Federation home systems though. It makes no sense that planets should be defended by vesels that could be hours away. Every home system should have a network of automated defence systems designed to disable approaching ships and detect cloaked vessels.

 

[Darth Picardous]

Mega Large. Assuming the Federation is a 'nice and even' 8000 LY across, with the galactic disk at 4000 LY deep, equates to a volume of 400 billion cubic light years. Assuming Carl Sagan's estimate of ~400 billion suns in the Milky Way, with a galaxy diameter of 100K LY, Fed space would contain ~5 billion stars. Thats a lot of exploring, defending and shipping routes to take care of!

 

[Pauln6]

But that's part of the charm. Space IS too big to explore or defend fully. Anybody who ventures out there is taking a huge risk. If it starts to become easy or commonplace what do you do to make it exciting again? Sequel syndrome is to try and make things bigger, better, and louder with more lens flare than before. You don't need to do that if you don't push right to the boundaries in the first place.

 

[SPCTRE]

For a second there I thought this thread title would go in a terrible direction.

 

[BillJ]

Small. Just better for storytelling purposes.