Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[cbl1]

as I mentioned in the other CBS merger thread - I think a series based off the destruction of Romulus and the implications of the empire being broken up could lead to a lot of federation border tension and changes within the federation itself and its alliances.

 

[BillJ]

as I mentioned in the other CBS merger thread - I think a series based off the destruction of Romulus and the implications of the empire being broken up could lead to a lot of federation border tension and changes within the federation itself and its alliances.

That sounds so incredibly dull to me. Try Occupied.

 

[cbl1]

They can go any direction they want - certainly doesn't have to be dull. You are going to have to fracture utopian Federation a bit in order to create some drama.

 

[Lord Garth]

Never heard of that. Is it about finding beauty in simplicity?

Nick Meyer and Pauline Kael have said it. They probably got it from somewhere too. I've also heard it few other places. I have no idea who the first person was who said it, though.

I think it's more being forced to come up with ways to get what you want when the ways most people take for granted are shut off. Ideally, it forces someone to think outside the box and makes them become more inventive in finding a solution.

It's hard to recapture the mood of TOS it suited the decade it was created in. Discovery has set its own mood and I get that. The result visually is reflective of our times. Must admit I like the corny, colourful staged feel of The Original. Even the cardboard props and that soap opera acting style of the actors and actresses. Not sure if I'm meant to see it that way but that is the affect it has on me. Discovery has gone for a darker aesthetic with more dramatic less melodramatic acting. The feel is entirely different. With their budget it would've been hard for the producers not to want to exploit that. It's like the timeline they have fitted into is less about the Trek one and more about current production values, with fitting into present TV and visual trends. Again it makes sense the competition takes priority.

Yeah, with the tone and feel of TOS and DSC, I do the same thing. I just take them in the context of when they were made and what they're going for.

 

[cooleddie74]

I don't know? Put a century between the end of the Berman-era and the start of Discovery and I could easily see the Klingons going back to being bad guys.

Aren't they bad guys in the 25th century in Star Trek Online?

I could see a major threat to the Klingon Homeworld or a violent coup and revolution within the Empire leading to a return to imperialist expansion and fascism on the part of many Klingons. If, say, a military coup toppled Chancellor Martok or the entire High Council were overthrown by an ambitious house with designs on reviving the old Klingon ways of conquest and interstellar tensions I could very well see the Empire devolving to what it was during the DSC and TOS timeframe.

 

[cbl1]

Of course in "All Good Things" look at the future we saw the Klingon / Federation treaty fall apart. While that is an aborted timeline - it still showed the possible general direction of things to come.

 

[fireproof78]

as I mentioned in the other CBS merger thread - I think a series based off the destruction of Romulus and the implications of the empire being broken up could lead to a lot of federation border tension and changes within the federation itself and its alliances.

I like this idea, personally. I also like the idea of new territory to explore as well.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm not going to lie. Watching the Klingon and Federation relations deteriorate that much and seeing such a radical change in the Empire back toward Imperialism would not be something I'd have been too thrilled to see. Could it have been possible? Yes.

But. While Human Society is shown to be constantly progressing, I'd like to see Klingon Society also continually progressing. Seeing the Klingons regress to such an extreme would be depressing beyond the extreme for me to see.

For those reasons, I prefer all-out war with the Klingons being something pre-Star Trek VI.

In "The Way of the Warrior", there was context. We saw not all Klingons were on board with Gowron during the fourth season of DS9, and even with hostilities renewed, it still wasn't back to the way it was during the TOS Era. Or the DSC Era, where it looks like things were even more hostile than in TOS.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Aren't they bad guys in the 25th century in Star Trek Online?

Never played it, but my impression from the backstory I've read is that everyone is fighting everyone all the time.

It is a combat game, after all.

 

[Butters]

I'm not going to lie. Watching the Klingon and Federation relations deteriorate that much and seeing such a radical change in the Empire back toward Imperialism would not be something I'd have been too thrilled to see. Could it have been possible? Yes.

But. While Human Society is shown to be constantly progressing, I'd like to see Klingon Society also continually progressing. Seeing the Klingons regress to such an extreme would be depressing beyond the extreme for me to see.

For those reasons, I prefer all-out war with the Klingons being something pre-Star Trek VI.

In "The Way of the Warrior", there was context. We saw not all Klingons were on board with Gowron during the fourth season of DS9, and even with hostilities renewed, it still wasn't back to the way it was during the TOS Era. Or the DSC Era, where it looks like things were even more hostile than in TOS.

I’m not a fan of progressive Klingons to be honest, and a future where everyone is nice to each other is dramatically dull.

To paraphrase Churchill, if you have no enemies, you’ve never stood up for anything. That Klingons, romulans, ferengi, cardassians etc are all on some evolutionary path to converge with humans and spend eternity taking recreational art classes in the federation? That’s the insidious repressive federation Quark was talking about.

 

[Tosk]

And there doesn't seem to be anyone making the argument that labeling it "Prime" somehow improves its quality. If anything I think the "Prime" labeling debate seems to be about people wanting to give themselves permission to dismiss it or people not wanting to let people dismiss it.

I'm confused. If no one is making that claim, why do you assume it's about that?

 

[BillJ]

I could see a major threat to the Klingon Homeworld or a violent coup and revolution within the Empire leading to a return to imperialist expansion and fascism on the part of many Klingons. If, say, a military coup toppled Chancellor Martok or the entire High Council were overthrown by an ambitious house with designs on reviving the old Klingon ways of conquest and interstellar tensions I could very well see the Empire devolving to what it was during the DSC and TOS timeframe.

You could actually hit on the idea that fringe elements do represent a threat to freedom and stability of a nation. Much like we are seeing in the US now. It could've actually been a reflection of what is going on in the USA. Instead of the paper thin lip service the current season gave us.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I'm confused. If no one is making that claim, why do you assume it's about that?

Because the user I was responding to said something to that effect a couple pages ago.

 

[Tuskin38]

Aren't they bad guys in the 25th century in Star Trek Online?

Only for about a year, they’re allies again.

 

[Rahul]

as I mentioned in the other CBS merger thread - I think a series based off the destruction of Romulus and the implications of the empire being broken up could lead to a lot of federation border tension and changes within the federation itself and its alliances.

As far as I'm concerned, the destruction of Romulus should forever be limited to the Kelvin-timeline movies...
Yeah. I know, "technically" it happened in the prime universe. Much like "red matter", dumbass Old Spock handing over WMDs to terrorist without putting up a fight, and the Narada being a normal "Romulan mining vessel".

As far as I'm concerned, ALL these elements have fuck-all to do with classic Star Trek continuity. They should be trated as one alternative future of the Kelvin timeline, and forever left at that.

The destruction of the homeworld of a major power (weather it be Vulcans or Romulans) is an interesting topic. But one that needs to be handled with extreme care. And it was so utterly, ridicoulusly botched in ST09 - TWICE! - that I think there will never come something interesting out of these two particular events making them worth ever revisiting.

As far as I'm concerned: Please let them be forgotten. Be held as one of the dystopic alternate futures Star Trek has a thousand of. But not ever be taken serious.

 

[Mudd]

 

[Lord Garth]

I’m not a fan of progressive Klingons to be honest, and a future where everyone is nice to each other is dramatically dull.

To paraphrase Churchill, if you have no enemies, you’ve never stood up for anything. That Klingons, romulans, ferengi, cardassians etc are all on some evolutionary path to converge with humans and spend eternity taking recreational art classes in the federation? That’s the insidious repressive federation Quark was talking about.

I never said "every race" and there are also other enemies. I'm just talking about these two particular civilizations. To quote the Organian in "Errand of Mercy" (TOS): "One day you'll become fast friends." It was predicted even in 1967, by writers who had no idea Star Trek would ever go passed TOS.

Kor even tries to point out to Kirk how much they have in common as species. Kirk, ironically, is the one who dismissed the notion. Toward the end of the episode, for a moment, it looks like they both want to side against the Organians when they finally make their move.

 

[ITDUDE]

Of course in "All Good Things" look at the future we saw the Klingon / Federation treaty fall apart. While that is an aborted timeline - it still showed the possible general direction of things to come.

As long as that future comes with Galaxy-X then I say bring it on!

 

[AlanC9]

To paraphrase Churchill, if you have no enemies, you’ve never stood up for anything. That Klingons, romulans, ferengi, cardassians etc are all on some evolutionary path to converge with humans and spend eternity taking recreational art classes in the federation? That’s the insidious repressive federation Quark was talking about.

Or Eddington, I guess. "You assimilate people and they don't even know it."

It's not a short-term problem, though. There will be new parts of the galaxy for the Federation to absorb for a long, long time.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You know, post-VOY, there are no fixed events. But "OH NO!!!! Late-24th and 25th Century!!!!!" TNG and VOY were largely self-contained. All the "HUGE MASSIVE CONTINUITY!!!!" is really from DS9. And who says a series that takes place later on -- especially 20 years later -- even has to reference it? It doesn't.

"But Gene's Perfect Humans!!!!" They'd been moving away from that ever since he died.

On the other hand, I like the 23rd Century, so I don't mind Discovery being there. And, as they say, "art thrives on limitation."

The thing is, TOS is even more self-contained than Voyager and TNG, and had fewer episodes, looser world building and a LOT less background material (e.g. "none"). On the other hand, the series that immediately followed Voyager was set in the 22nd century and basically used First Contact as part of its background.

So Discovery has a choice: either set itself some years after Enterprise, or set itself some years after Voyager. They chose the first option, probably because the fictional history between Enterprise and TOS is large enough to fit ALOT of interesting stories.

Which leads us to wonder (and expect) that some day we'll get a TV series based on the adventures of the Enterprise-C. The butthurt fan rage will be completely through the roof when the new version of the ENT-C utterly fails to look like the Yesterday's Enterprise version and doesn't recycle the Monster Maroon uniforms.