Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[Crazy Eddie]

Even though I am not bothered ether way on this particular issue I must admit I laughed out loud when Sarek leaned on the desk.

Why? We saw the hologram visibly flicker and then Sarek's position and orientation both changed. And it did it in a very obvious way, with the producers trying to make it look like a kind of glitch in the projection: Sarek's office is arranged slightly different from Burnham's quarters, so when he leans against HIS desk, the projector has to move his image slightly so that he's leaning against an equivalent desk in Burnham's quarters.

The suggestion is that the projectors are an adaptive technology; the system sees what's in the room with you and tries to provide the person you're talking to with a "best fit" projection of the image in your environment. If you are talking to someone via hologram and they suddenly sit down, the projectors will move your image to a convenient chair so you don't seem to be sitting in the middle of the room; if there are no chairs in the room, the projector will just render the one you're sitting on.

Its almost like they were in a hurry with no time to actually think about what they are filming

Or maybe you're not thinking about what you're watching, seeing how all of the subtleties of that sequence went right over your head?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Discovery has a very "anime" vibe to it. Has anyone else noticed this? Or almost like a music video, like scenes are a semi-symbolic representation of events. It may depend on director, but the images that immediately(and most obviously) spring to mind are things like Burnham's court martial, or the "Klingon fleet" poised to attack earth.

It's like the feeling you get when watching a stage play, and the various representations a play will use. Maybe it's artistically designed to be that way.

TOS certainly was. One of the things the original cast have pointed out is that later productions were never quite as theatrical as TOS. This is another feature of the "Space Odyssey" Paradigm shift IMO: most science fiction movies and TV shows since then are filmed and produced almost like adaptations from novels, where as TOS had the flavor and style of a stage production that just happened to be filmed. A more clear example of this is in sitcoms: a show like The Big Bang Theory or Two and a Half Men will have subtly different story elements and execution than a show like Arrested Development or Shameless. Not so much because of the premise or characters involved, but because they're approaching the stories in slightly different formats; the former are using a "live studio audience" gimmick (even when they're not) while the latter are more cinematic narratives on their own.

This comes out of the subtleties of production choices, camera work, dialog choices and speaking style; a more theatrical production includes a lot more wide shots and the blocking usually orients the action towards the center of the stage (so if Spock is talking to Kirk, at least one of them is always facing the center of the bridge, or the camera is arranged so that they're both facing the center of the frame). By comparison, TNG involves more frequent use of close-ups, soft cuts, and panning takes within a scene. The action isn't as often centrally oriented; more often than not, everyone is facing the same direction and the focus of the scene is what everyone is actually supposed to be looking at and interacting with rather than the person they're actually talking to.

Discovery leans back towards a more theatrical style, IMO. Not nearly to the extent TOS did, of course, but there is a noticeable preference for wider angles and more centralized scene blocking. A really great example of this is the banter with Saru, Burnham and Mirror Georgiou. They're literally on opposite sides of the room, all sniping at Georgiou who is sitting in the center of everything; Detmer and Owosekun keep looking over their shoulder wondering "What the fuck is going on?"

The more theatrical approach makes the visuals less a matter of literal truth as much as "There's a Klingon fleet bearing down on Earth!" without providing you with any information about how close they are or how many there are. Some anime productions take this same approach, while some take the more literal "visual novel" approach.

 

[fireproof78]

Entertainment. Klingons and Vulcans and Andorians do not exist in real life and never will. It's a fantasy world, and it hasn't tried to be a realistic projection of the future, ever.

When it comes to the human element, that optimism that humanity can become better, I think that it was meant to be "our future."

 

[F. King Daniel]

The projection visibly jumps whenever it interacts with its environment, though. The person being projected moves around their environment freely, and the projector is trying in real time to make it fit into the environment they are being viewed from. Multiple times we see this in "The Vulcan Hello" and "The Battle of the Binary Stars".

You guys don't even watch the show.

That's still interaction with the environment.

And glitching aside, it's still far more advanced and functional than DS9's "new" holocomm, which is limited to a small pad.

It's like going back to a landline phone a hundred years later because the sound quality was slightly improved.

 

[Lord Garth]

Sometimes I talk to people using Skype. Only because they contacted me on Skype. Most often, I use a phone, even when I'm in front of a computer. I chalk up the holoprojector to being the same thing.

TNG Seasons 1 had 3-D projections that would pop up in the Observation Room that would serve as monitors. Later on, it was dropped.

We had 3-D movies as early as the 1950s but they didn't truly catch on until the 2010s. Whenever they had 3-D before, it felt like a gimmick, or a fad, and it would never last. From about Avatar on (give or take), it seems to have finally stuck.

People like trying out new things for their novelty but will go back to doing what they normally do once the fun factor, the "look at this!" factor wears off. Then that thing they used to think was just a novelty manages to creep its way into normal use.

Or sometimes it doesn't. I don't remember them using the holoprojector outside of DS9 Season 5. For whatever reason, it's just one of those things that never seems to catch on no matter how many times they try to bring it out.

The DS9 version which has less mobility than the DSC version is one of those things where they upgrade technology but take away a feature. A new version always has to have some drawback somewhere even if they improved upon the complaint about the previous version. There's always something wrong the current version of anything so they can release a "new and improved!" version later... which will have another drawback of its own. Repeat the cycle...

... Windows taught me well. As did the James Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies.

 

[Ceridwen]

"You appear to be sitting on my bridge" is the line from that episode. The actor is right there in the room with him. Sarek looks like a damn ghost. Also, earlier when I mentioned The Doctor "interacting" with his environment, I meant he can pick things up. You could walk up and kiss your loved ones with that Deep Space Nine holocommunicator (The Doctor can have sex); try that with the Discovery version and you will fall on the floor. Because it's completely different technology that you keep using the same words for.

It doesn't work for you because you don't want it to work. Remember that the phrase is willing suspension of disbelief; YOU have to be willing.

 

[WebLurker]

If Star Trek isn't about our future, what's the point?

How does it not being the "real" future of our world make it pointless? The stories and characters still work, which is how any kind of fiction lives or dies.

Referring to?

The manned mission to Saturn would probably be Colonel Shaun Geoffrey Christopher's Earth-Saturn Probe that was conjectured to take place in or around 2009, though in my fanfic I placed the mission in 2025 and named the early fusion-driven impulse craft he commanded the Titan One.

It just made more sense that a manned mission to Saturn would be launched after the sublight propulsion breakthrough of 2018 mentioned by Marla McGivers in "Space Seed."

Cool Eddie got it right. I was thinking of the Christopher probe. The date came from the Chronology, which was a guess, but I personally don't see the need to move it, even if the date not being strictly canon does allow for it to shift as authors (fan or professional) need it to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Sometimes I talk to people using Skype. Only because they contacted me on Skype. Most often, I use a phone, even when I'm in front of a computer. I chalk up the holoprojector to being the same thing.

Skype is available as an app for phones, so they're essentially exactly the same thing as Facetime or whatever.

TNG Seasons 1 had 3-D projections that would pop up in the Observation Room that would serve as monitors. Later on, it was dropped.

We had 3-D movies as early as the 1950s but they didn't truly catch on until the 2010s. Whenever they had 3-D before, it felt like a gimmick, or a fad, and it would never last. From about Avatar on (give or take), it seems to have finally stuck.

People like trying out new things for their novelty but will go back to doing what they normally do once the fun factor, the "look at this!" factor wears off. Then that thing they used to think was just a novelty manages to creep its way into normal use.

Or sometimes it doesn't. I don't remember them using the holoprojector outside of DS9 Season 5. For whatever reason, it's just one of those things that never seems to catch on no matter how many times they try to bring it out.

The DS9 version which has less mobility than the DSC version is one of those of where they upgrade technology but take away a feature. A new version always has to have some drawback somewhere even if they improved upon the complaint about the previous version. There's always something wrong the current version of anything so they can release a "new and improved!" version later... which will have another drawback of its own. Repeat the cycle...

... Windows taught me well. As did the James Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies.

I'm pretty sure having holograms projected anywhere in the room with you is more practical and useful than having them limited to a small pad in the corner. It would have been useful for the TNG, DS9 and Voyager crews to have holograms manifest anywhere in the room when they needed a quick chat with someone, or a big graphic made pop up so everyone could see.

"You appear to be sitting on my bridge" is the line from that episode. The actor is right there in the room with him. Sarek looks like a damn ghost. Also, earlier when I mentioned The Doctor "interacting" with his environment, I meant he can pick things up. You could walk up and kiss your loved ones with that Deep Space Nine holocommunicator (The Doctor can have sex); try that with the Discovery version and you will fall on the floor. Because it's completely different technology that you keep using the same words for.

Sarek looks like a ghost but the Klingons on the "not"Holodeck were completely solid. MirrorMode is solid. We know they interact with their environments at least little, but the extent of which is pure supposition. The show hasn't even tried to made it clear.

It doesn't work for you because you don't want it to work. Remember that the phrase is willing suspension of disbelief; YOU have to be willing.

It doesn't work because I refuse to imagine in my head a bunch of technological limitations the show has failed to establish itself.

The reason these holograms exist and are widespread in Discovery is because we now have the technology to depict them cheaply, and the producers decided to include them and ignore continuity. Not because they in any way naturally fit into the previously-established technology of the timeframe. So why should I try when the people making the show aren't? It's utterly pointless, because they'll show the holograms doing whatever they think looks coolest. And thus I choose to enjoy Discovery as it's own separate take on Trek which is unbeholden to O'Brien's "new" technology 100 years later.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yes but part of that is tied to humanity's past. Making that past some sort of alternate reality that becomes less and less like our actual history defeats that purpose on a creative and philosophical level.

Its the past and future of Earth 2 in another dimension

 

[Nyotarules]

Born in 2032. Disappeared in 2119 sometime after attending the dedication ceremony for the Warp Five Complex.

His parents are still teenagers now

 

[Spot261]

His parents are still teenagers now

Oh you met them too?

 

[Nyotarules]

Oh you met them too?

yep I'm the future paternal granny

 

[cultcross]

It's like going back to a landline phone a hundred years later because the sound quality was slightly improved.

Which is basically what TOS did. Wall panels with push buttons which you have to stand next to and have an audio conversation. We aren't doing that now, let alone in the 23rd century. Technology has moved on, and shows set in the future (even if it's not nominally our future, although I can't see that Trek was ever anything else) look pretty silly if they don't move with it.

 

[jaime]

Which is basically what TOS did. Wall panels with push buttons which you have to stand next to and have an audio conversation. We aren't doing that now, let alone in the 23rd century. Technology has moved on, and shows set in the future (even if it's not nominally our future, although I can't see that Trek was ever anything else) look pretty silly if they don't move with it.

I kinda like the approach in some of the books...the tech looks simple, but isn’t, it’s designed for use in space. I always add my own caveat to that, which is that things like he PADD are more advanced than iPads, kindles what have you, because for all we know they are made of entirely different materials, and are more environmentally friendly, for example. Fundamentally everything is by TNG anyway, because of replicators, but maybe some of the stuff is designed to be totally biodegradable for instance. No worries about that phaser being left on an away mission..if it doesn’t have its atomic structure renewed in a transporter beam once a year it turns into a puddle of harmless goo anyway...stuff like that. Yes..it’s a form of headcanon, but an interesting one.
Those intraship communications could be running down cables made of basically grass for all we know.

 

[BillJ]

Sarek looks like a ghost but the Klingons on the "not"Holodeck were completely solid. MirrorMode is solid. We know they interact with their environments at least little, but the extent of which is pure supposition. The show hasn't even tried to made it clear.

I'm guessing they are still using analog technology in the 23rd century. With digital, its either there or its not.

 

[Tuskin38]

but the Klingons on the "not"Holodeck were completely solid.

Because they were not a transmission. Same reason the Mirrors were solid.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How does it not being the "real" future of our world make it pointless? The stories and characters still work, which is how any kind of fiction lives or dies.

Other way around. It's past not being our past makes it pointless from a storytelling perspective. One of the conceits of Star Trek is it our future and shares our past and present.

 

[BillJ]

Because they were not a transmission. Same reason the Mirrors were solid.

A holographic projector should work basically the same way, regardless of whether it is projecting a mirrored person or a person on the other end of a long-distance call.

There's a silliness to there being a difference.

 

[Tuskin38]

A holographic projector should work basically the same way, regardless of whether it is projecting a mirrored person or a person on the other end of a long-distance call.

There's a silliness to there being a difference.

Bandwidth usage.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Which is basically what TOS did. Wall panels with push buttons which you have to stand next to and have an audio conversation. We aren't doing that now, let alone in the 23rd century. Technology has moved on, and shows set in the future (even if it's not nominally our future, although I can't see that Trek was ever anything else) look pretty silly if they don't move with it.

Enterprise had to make the communicators thinner than the ones from TOS because we all have cell phones by then. If they made TNG now, Geordi's visor be very different because we've actually been able to make fairly simple versions of it already allowing blind people some degree of vision.