Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Annorax849, Feb 4, 2018.

?

Is it?

  1. Yes, that's the official word and it still fits

    193 vote(s)
    44.7%
  2. Yes, but it's borderline at this point

    44 vote(s)
    10.2%
  3. No, there's just too many inconsistencies

    146 vote(s)
    33.8%
  4. I don't care about continuity, just the show's quality

    49 vote(s)
    11.3%
  1. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Are you two the only two people in the world? Did all the other Polish actors in the world die while we've been talking? Your point is based entirely on false hypotheticals. It's never the choice between two individuals you want it to be, which is why you keep coming back to that scenario because it's the only one in which your point of view makes any sense.
     
    JoeP and cultcross like this.
  2. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    This other Eden
    Exactly. What you keep dodging, @Discofan is that the scenario you're imagining is entirely contrived. If you are trying to cast an Indian guy, and you have one terrible Indian actor and one decent white actor in blackface, guess what the solution is? Find a third guy!

    You're engaging in the acting corollary of what we had in the First Asian Captain thread, "I don't see colour". "Just choose actors by merit, they're actors" sounds lovely but is a hugely problematic position when filtered through the real world of prejudice and discrimination.
     
    BeatleJWOL, BillJ, Nerys Myk and 3 others like this.
  3. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    How many actors play first roles in American movies? Much fewer than there are movies? Why? According to your logic, there should be a completely different cast for each movie, because only a handful of actors are necessary for the "speaking parts" and there are millions of candidates, So what are the odds that the SAME actor would be the BETTER match of a role twice in a row. Yet that's exactly what happens. There is a role that only five or six people in the world have even a smidgen of a chance of getting. So it's very plausible that my friend and I would be the only ones competing for a role. Because it happens all the time. How many people had the slightest chance of being cast as Captain Picard? Not many, and definitely not millions.

    Btw, Stewart not only isn't French but his French is barely understandable, Brent Spiner's is better. So much for ethnic casting!
     
  4. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    I may be naive but I believe things would be better if people were chosen on merit and on merit alone regardless of any other consideration.

    If you need say, a Robin Hood, you'll choose someone that can make you believe that he's Robin Hood, not someone who's born near Sherwood Forest, won't you?
     
  5. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    This other Eden
    And you'll have no issue unless people from Sherwood Forest find themselves the victims of widespread systemic discrimination.
     
    JoeP and DanielPMonut like this.
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored A Nation in Distress Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, California
    Anytime you want to stop using dishonest or dismissive comparisons and start discussing the topic in a mature way, that would be swell.
     
    Ceridwen, Lord Garth, JoeP and 3 others like this.
  7. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    I can't believe they even cast Stewart with all the French actors that are fluent in English! Why aren't more people outraged that they did?
     
    ITDUDE likes this.
  8. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    This other Eden
    Naomi Pollack, a Jewish woman born in New York, was cast as an Indian woman, in actual brown facepaint, in the season 3 episode That Which Survives and a Native American in The Paradise Syndrome. Not enough Indian people around to find anyone who could competently say "Yes Mr Spock", or Native Americans who could believably stand silently in the background, it seems.
     
    ITDUDE, BillJ, Ceridwen and 3 others like this.
  9. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    A white person playing a different kind of white person is not in the same ballpark (or really even the same sport) as a white person playing a POC. It just isn't. That sounds so obvious but....apparently it isn't???
     
  10. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Why should it be obvious?

    Picard was born and raised in France so why not take an actor born and raised in France? I wasn't aware that there were so few of them that they were stuck with an Englishman?

    It seems to me that what's good for the goose is usually good for the gander as well.

    They couldn't even be bothered with hiring French actors for ONE episode!!! When Picard visits his Brother IN FRANCE not one of the actors with a speaking role was French, NOT ONE!

    That sounds like discrimination to me.
     
  11. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    One is a goose, one is a chicken.

    EDIT: You clearly just don't understand what discrimination is. Or you're being disingenuous. My money is on the latter.
     
    Lord Garth, JoeP, Gonzo and 3 others like this.
  12. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Did anyone else immediately think of Kevin Costner's performance when reading this? "Robin of Malibu" -- I forget which critic said that.
     
    jaime likes this.
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Sitting on a cornflake.
    A movie I saw but can't recall anything about. :p
     
  14. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    You won't resolve discrimination by imposing potentially costly and impractical casting rules.

    The question you should be asking is why would people hire actors that are less likely to make their movie a success unless they are insane or they are somehow forced to do so, although I can't imagine how?
     
  15. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    This other Eden
    Repeating that contrived falsehood doesn't make it true.
     
    JoeP and Balok's Decoy like this.
  16. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    In a perfect world - casting could indeed be colorblind. The film "Cloud Atlas" did an incredibly brave attempt at it: It had black actors playing white characters, white actors playing asian characters, and asian actors playing white characters. It was an attempt.

    But in reality, this issue is SO laden with intentional and un-intentional racism, it's a very hard topic to discuss. The problem with blackface is not that it's a white actor playing a black character. It's the whole stereotyping and demeaning beneath it. There's simply not going to be a "realistic" portrayal of a black man, if a white man directs another white man on how to "black" properly. An actor is not better because he can speak proper (white) mid-Atlantic movie dialect. How anyone can not see this honestly baffles the mind sometimes.

    Also, if white people wouldn't just throw everytime a black actors play a traditional white role SUCH gigantic shit-tantrum (idris Elba being "too street" for James Bond, or the backlash of him playing Heimdall), and if we actually had a FEW black people behind the scenes, as directors or writer actually making decisions on how to portray black people on screen, the topic could be debated much more sober.

    As it is, it's a minefield of shit-bombs. And we're years away from people being forgiving about mistakes with this topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    BeatleJWOL, ITDUDE, Ceridwen and 3 others like this.
  17. Discofan

    Discofan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    They did hire a black Moneypenny and a black Felix Leiter though.
     
  18. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    At this point I'm wondering if you're really this oblivious to the world. Because this seems to be intentionally obtuse. And if it is, it would imply ugly things....

    And fuck, even I'm a straight white male, and can see beyond this shit. You have to be intentionally ignoring it and closing both eyes and ears to pretend to not notice it at this point.
     
    BillJ, DanielPMonut and cultcross like this.
  19. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    POC are costly and impractical?

    If I'm reading you correctly, you're basically saying that POC aren't cast as much as white people because white people are more bankable and ain't that just a shame. Which is both a racist argument and untrue (see: Black Panther made all of the money).
     
    BillJ, Locutus of Bored and cultcross like this.
  20. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    This other Eden
    Never thought I'd miss the arguing about reboots :crazy:
     
    Myko, Rahul, BillJ and 4 others like this.