Me too, same circumstance.
Apparently that kid was showing it to almost everyone around the school that day - I have no idea why, it wasn't very impressive.
Do you carry ID with you?
- Thread starter RoJoHen
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Apparently that kid was showing it to almost everyone around the school that day - I have no idea why, it wasn't very impressive.
Not so much 'incapable' as 'not wanting to get the store's liquor license revoked and possibly get their own ass thrown in jail'.
I am fairly strict about carding. Don't think that just because somebody has a beard that they'll get sold booze automatically. I will card pretty much anyone I feel like, and I have the *right* to do so. If a bunch of people come up to the counter at once, I will card each and every one of them, no matter who's actually doing the buying. I will even turn away people who are obviously old enough, if their license is expired (yes, we can do that too). I do this to protect my store and my own job.
What I don't get is an expired license was at one time valid, yet since it's expired, it's no longer valid? Did the person become legally underage again for not proving they are still over 18/21?
I've seen this come up a few times before and find it rather stupid. Especially that things like state or personal identification that has no purpose other than to prove you are who you claim expire after a given time. It makes sense to update them every few years with a new picture of yourself if you've changed significantly like gained or lost a lot of weight, had plastic surgery, etc. but to make it invalid for simply not paying another feee to renew it?
I've seen this come up a few times before and find it rather stupid. Especially that things like state or personal identification that has no purpose other than to prove you are who you claim expire after a given time. It makes sense to update them every few years with a new picture of yourself if you've changed significantly like gained or lost a lot of weight, had plastic surgery, etc. but to make it invalid for simply not paying another feee to renew it?
It varies from state to state, but I'm pretty sure TN is now a card EVERYONE regardless of age state. I know that my wife and her fellow managers were sent for "retraining" this year on the new booze and smoke laws and they were told that by law they had to card anyone whether or not they looked old enough. Last place I worked that should liquor (truckstop) company policy was to card everyone regardless of appearance or be fired.
In my wife's case it's lead to some problems and a lot of people don't do it, but she'd rather have a customer complaint about carding (which she does get) than not do it, end up fined/in jail and not make it pass her green-card renewal.
It's just a safeguard. I never paid too much attention to the expiration date, but it could be a sign that the ID is a fake if someone wasn't careful enough making it.
But according to law, you need to have a valid ID on you to purchase alcohol. If the expiration date has past, the ID is not valid.
I don't know how it is in different states, but here there the "under 21" has a completely different look and design than the "over 21" ID. I believe they give you 30 days after the expiration date to renew it.
Most states I know of do have an obvious way to see an under 21 to over 21 ID but if someone is going to make a fake ID so good you can't tell the difference, I doubt that it would be all undone by a bad expiration date.
I think the laws are at times too ambiguous or too strict in their requirements but that does extend well beyond a plastic card with your picture and name on it.
I think the laws are at times too ambiguous or too strict in their requirements but that does extend well beyond a plastic card with your picture and name on it.
Well, as I said, that's why they give you 30 days to renew your ID after the expiration date. And not just that, but people's looks can change drastically between 16 (when I assume most people get their first IDs) and 21. I know I didn't look anything like my ID picture on my 21st birthday.
Unless laws here have changed (they may have - I have no reason to keep too up to date on licensing laws anymore) you only get in trouble if caught serving a minor.
If I look underage to someone, I'd be glad of the compliment (considering certain people on this board think I'm in my mid-thirties
) and on occasions where it's required to have ID such as gigs with no lower age limit - I'm more happy to pass and drink diet coke.But when someone in their 40's is carded (such as a good friend of mine who was asked to provide ID and arguably looks a bit older than his age) it's not a case of protecting yourself or your establishment as much as it is stupidity, or in the case of one of my own former staff - being a dick for the sake of it.
It may come down to different rules in different places.
How are we supposed to *know* they're over 40 until we card them?
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Hell, they'll try it even if the kid is under 21. A woman tried to get my wife fired for not selling to her son...who was 17. She didn't deny that the kid was 17, but the fact that his mother called and said it was okay for him to buy the beer should have been "good enough for the bitch".I always think it's funny when parents try to vouch for their 20-something kids who don't have their ID. "I gave birth to him. I know he's 21."
How does poor customer service protect your store?
You said yourself that the people are "obviously old enough" and yet you'll still deny them. Unless there's a law in your state that you have to show ID to buy alcohol or tobacco regardless of age (which there's clearly not judging by you saying "I'll card anyone I feel like"), that's not looking out for your store's best interests, that just going on a petty power trip.
No one fakes an expired license, so again it's just being obnoxious to deny the sale for that reason if the ID looks legit and the people are of legal age.
When you say you card everyone in a group, does that include parents shopping with their young children (I'm not talking about an adult hanging with some teenagers)? Normally I'd find the premise of anyone denying a sale because of this absurd, but given your other reasons for denial it becomes more plausible all of a sudden.
It's not poor, it's efficient.
If they have expired IDs, or if they're in a group where some of them look underage and don't have their IDs, then yes.
Irrelevant. An ID that's expired is an ID that does not exist. Once an ID expires, it becomes worthless.
No.
See that guy in the middle? If a bar tender didn't know for sure he wasn't underage - I'd be surprised if they could stand upright.
He actually looks like A LOT like a kid I went to high school with.
See that guy in the middle? If a bar tender didn't know for sure he wasn't underage - I'd be surprised if they could stand upright.
You can't be too careful. Especially when the potential fallout could cost jobs and liquor licenses, and result in jail time.
In any case, if all three of those people came through at once, I would card all of them, simply because the guy on the left doesn't look old enough. I wouldn't be doing this for a power trip, I'd be doing it because *I have to*.
You're not the DMV or a cop. You're simply verifying age. Expired or not, the age doesn't magically reverse. It's one thing if they might be underage and your worried about a sting, it's another if they're obviously old enough.
Unfortunately, there is always the risk that the person buying alcohol is an undercover cop performing a sting. It happens more often than you'd think, and if you sell the alcohol to them with an expired license, you can get in a ton of trouble.
That said, people who are obviously old enough shouldn't need to be carded at all.
^^^ I edited that into my post before you responded, Quickdraw. 
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