The universe is so mind fuckingly huge I find it impossible to believe we're the only ones in it.
Are aliens visiting us? No.
Do aliens look or think anything like us? No.
Do you believe in the existence of aliens?
- Thread starter Nerdius Maximus
- Start date
The universe is so mind fuckingly huge I find it impossible to believe we're the only ones in it.
Are aliens visiting us? No.
Do aliens look or think anything like us? No.
See, that's the thing I'm talking about! It just fucks people's minds, so there just HAS to be someone else in this giant universe.
It's not a bad thing, but one has to realize that as of the moment it is solely based on irrationality. It's a human wish not to be alone, and the idea of the existence of aliens has been fixed in people's minds by over a hundred years of science fiction literature and television. But there is NO evidence AT ALL.
I also "hope" that there are aliens out there, but I also know that my belief in aliens is not any different than other people's beliefs in God. Both have never been proven to exist. And of course there surely is a probability that the universe must have a creator, because it simply is so huge and complex, it just MUST have someone who designed it, it just can't be based solely on a giant coincidence, right?
We don't even know if life on our planet is just the result of a big fucking coincidence that will never occur again. We don't even know for certain WHY life formed on our planet. And the system is so extremely well balanced and complex, the absolutely right distance Sun-Earth, the Sun being the right type with the right temperature and size, the composition of Earth's core and crust, the Moon stabalizing Earth's rotation and axis, the tides probably being the reason why some species had been forced to live on land, Jupiter protecting the inner planets from larger fragments, etc... there are so many variables that made life on Earth possible. So it's not just a question of how many planets are out there, it's also a question of how many of these planets do really share a similar set of parameters.
But it's so big that any coincidence would be likely to repeat.
I find the idea that we're the only life in the entire universe to be almost egotistical - some sort of "we're special!" mentality.
I find the idea that we're the only life in the entire universe to be almost egotistical - some sort of "we're special!" mentality.
How big does it really need to be that such a coincidence happens twice? Nobody knows.
You really can't predict anything with just one sample (one that you also don't even fully understand).
Thats why I wrote, "for the sake of this argument". Its something that some people use to get to a point. For example, we can ask, "If you are the president, how you handle the economy?" Some people may argue that they are not the president, but thats not the point of the discussion. So we say, "For the sake of this argument, lets assume you are."
Another example would be - "How can we communicate with aliens?" For the sake of the discussion, we would assume aliens exsist, are intelligent, and are able to communicate with us, instead of debating whether they exsist, or if any of them are intelligent.
I know there are more than a billion stars, but I find it is easier for people to understand my argument if I use billion, million, and thousand. People tend to get lost when I use 1x10^20 and 1x10^25, X and 10X, ect. I think people are more familiar with billion and million.
But if you convert you're "equation" then your argument becomes so statically low that I may as well be impossible for any life to exist ... even that on earth.
True, but we'd only see the representatives of whatever governing force they sent to us. Could be good or bad, or something we're not remotely familiar with or capable of comprehending.
But there is evidence; that's my point. We know that life is possible because it exists on Earth. We know that life appeared relatively soon after the Earth was formed. We know that the same elements exist throughout the Universe. We know that the laws of physics are the same everywhere. We know planets exist around other stars. We know roughly how many stars there are, or at least a minimum estimate. So, again, while there may be a non-zero possibility of life being unique to Earth, it's so close to zero as to make no difference.
There are more stars than that in our own, single, galaxy.
Fine, but when working with numbers it's best to be a precise as possible. Your numbers distorts the "facts" and in doing so, applying your same argument to actual numbers you were off by a factor of ten trillion.
This is what gets be about people so arrogant to say things like "you don't just know." So this is "evidence" or a rational way to say it's possible for us to be the only fucking life in the universe.
It's a 1x10^23 chance that is possible. That's so unlikely, as has been said, it shouldn't even be considered. Even if there's one planet with life on it in every galaxy that'd still mean there's 100 billion planets with life on it in the universe. Yeah, yeah, science dicates that facts rule over likelihood but at the same time, the chances of taking a shuffled deck of cards and shuffling it back into order (Ace through King, Spades, Diamonds, Clubs, then Hearts) is one in about 81 Unvigintillion. (A 1 followed by 67 zeroes.)
But, hey here the math says it's "possible" for it to happen. Now, granted, we don't know the "possibilty" of life on other planets so, thus, some are arguing it's more possible to shuffle a deck of cards back into order than it is for one, single, other planet in the universe to have life on it.
.... Right.
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But we don't know how it got here. We don't yet understand how life arises from non-life. It may be an incredibly unlikely event.
I'm being somewhat of a devil's advocate here as I do believe it is likely that the universe is teeming with at least simple life. From a coldly-logical standpoint though, gturner has done a good job showing why there is no hard evidence that life exists outside this planet. We need that second sample before the big universe argument works. Discovering the mechanism for life from non-life would work too, assuming the mechanism is not dependent on supremely unlikely circumstances.
It probably is an unlikely event. It doesn't matter, given the size of the Universe. The odds against it not happening elsewhere are too overwhelming.
Personally, I'm probably in the minority that fully believes that our very own solar system is just overflowing with life, just not all life as we know it. We all know that the kinds of bacteria we know of can flourish in just about any imaginable condition. Just imagine how unknown forms of bacterial life could flourish.
I believe that there are forms of "known" life living deep under the water of Jupiter or Saturn's moons, and that it's probably like forms of primordial deep sea fish that we have just recently discovered here on Earth, that can live without sunlight and in frigid conditions. I also believe Mars is just teeming with life, be it currently living bacterial forms near any sources of water, or inert forms of bacteria, just waiting to be awakened, when conditions are right.
I believe that the human race cannot even begin to firmly establish just what life is, and that we are probably in for some major surprises, down the road, in the scientific world. For instance, we have just begun to postulate about such things as carbon planets, where life could take a wholly different route... maybe some form of crystalline life, like the Tholians? The point is, we just cannot say for certain what life can or will be, or how much it will flourish.
I believe there is other humanoid life out there, and other intelligent life out there. But in terms of an intelligent race contacting us... I think for such a thing to happen, technological issues aside... it would have to be in their interest somehow, to justify wasting their time with us, or they would not devote such time and resources to such a venture. The reason would have to be real and believable.
I think that if there are other "Earths" out there... worlds exactly like ours, condition-wise, that there is almost certainly either a major lifeform or an intelligent lifeform present on such a world. Why? Because such was the case on Earth. It is only the arrogance and homocentric nature of humans that causes a belief that if we were to find an identical world, that it would be devoid of any major life, as if it were a turnkey home handed to us, factory-new, and just waiting for us. Such is not the case... worlds are ecosystems, that are all indigenous and unique.
And that is the BolianAdmiral's rant on the issue, lol.
I believe that there are forms of "known" life living deep under the water of Jupiter or Saturn's moons, and that it's probably like forms of primordial deep sea fish that we have just recently discovered here on Earth, that can live without sunlight and in frigid conditions. I also believe Mars is just teeming with life, be it currently living bacterial forms near any sources of water, or inert forms of bacteria, just waiting to be awakened, when conditions are right.
I believe that the human race cannot even begin to firmly establish just what life is, and that we are probably in for some major surprises, down the road, in the scientific world. For instance, we have just begun to postulate about such things as carbon planets, where life could take a wholly different route... maybe some form of crystalline life, like the Tholians? The point is, we just cannot say for certain what life can or will be, or how much it will flourish.
I believe there is other humanoid life out there, and other intelligent life out there. But in terms of an intelligent race contacting us... I think for such a thing to happen, technological issues aside... it would have to be in their interest somehow, to justify wasting their time with us, or they would not devote such time and resources to such a venture. The reason would have to be real and believable.
I think that if there are other "Earths" out there... worlds exactly like ours, condition-wise, that there is almost certainly either a major lifeform or an intelligent lifeform present on such a world. Why? Because such was the case on Earth. It is only the arrogance and homocentric nature of humans that causes a belief that if we were to find an identical world, that it would be devoid of any major life, as if it were a turnkey home handed to us, factory-new, and just waiting for us. Such is not the case... worlds are ecosystems, that are all indigenous and unique.
And that is the BolianAdmiral's rant on the issue, lol.
Agreed as I, too, am one of the few who believes there's possibly other forms of life in our solar-system. Possibly even life more complex than bacteria and such in the form of simple "fish-like" sealife.
If we find life, in any form, in our solar system that'd make it just that much more likely life exsists elsewhere in the galaxy and universe. If life can form and evolve twice in the same solar system with vastly different conditions then the probaboility of life being elsewhere is just that much more likely.
If we find life, in any form, in our solar system that'd make it just that much more likely life exsists elsewhere in the galaxy and universe. If life can form and evolve twice in the same solar system with vastly different conditions then the probaboility of life being elsewhere is just that much more likely.
It is not an equation. It is a concept.
When you flip a coin, the chances are 50% percent heads and 50% tails. However, if people that flip a coin 10 times, most won't get 5 heads and 5 tails.
Yes, the possibility may be so low, there may be statistically zero life in the universe. Thats why we may be alone in the universe.
Trekker4747 said:
That does not matter to the argument. I use this number to simplify my argument.
Trekker4747 said:
I disagree. I believe its best to make an argument as understandable as possible. Percision is good, but it can get overly complicated. My numbers are not about actual, it is conceptual. Its like a simplified diagram.
Maybe.Trekker4747 said:
It is reasonable to believe there is life on other worlds. I wrote that in an earlier post. I could be wrong. Honestly, I want there to be other life out there. It would be awsome if we made first contact before I pass away.
I made this argument to defend those that believe what I believe from those calling them arrogant. I am trying to give a reasonalbe argument to those who say that its impossible for us to be alone.
I think that thinking one is so special that they're the only on several thousand trillions to win something is pretty arrogant.
You're confused. If we are the only life in the universe, it means that we are the end result of an extremely unlikely set of circumstances. That wouldn't make us "special" in the way you are using the word.
So far, everyone in this thread who admits the possibility that we are alone are going by facts and logic - not arrogance. It is a fact that despite searching for decades, we have found no good evidence of even simple life outside of Earth. It is a fact that we do not yet have an understanding of how life arrives from non-life. With those two facts, the "huge universe" arguments is not logically valid. It doesn't work because we don't know what the odds of life developing are.
When we say, "There MUST be life out there because there are so many stars," we are speaking from intuition. It just doesn't seem right that life could be such an improbable thing, that Earth is the only place in the entire universe where it happened but logically, that might be the case. We don't have enough information yet to discount it.
