How else other than being conquered? They would decide to join, just like every other member the Federation has ever had.
Do you believe at some point, everyone in the Milky Way joined the Federation?
- Thread starter The Rock
- Start date
How else other than being conquered? They would decide to join, just like every other member the Federation has ever had.
Which they just had dismissed? I'm confused.
The federation is Star Trek’s hope and optimism embodied in a state.
For it to remain Trekkian, the federation must always expand, it just always explore, grow, progress, and eventually ascend.
For it to remain Trekkian, the federation must always expand, it just always explore, grow, progress, and eventually ascend.
Well, as long as the Maquis were UFP citizens, they'd need to obey the (scant few applicable) laws. It would supposedly be their choice to stop being UFP citizens.
However, they never chose so. Apparently, they just lacked the required guts. After all was said and done, in "Blaze of Glory", Eddington could only lament that "...This wasn't supposed to happen. We were winning. The Cardassian Empire was falling into chaos. The Maquis colonies were going to declare themselves an independent nation!".
All the way to the bitter end, the Maquis were merely criminals, not secessionists. By their own choice.
Timo Saloniemi
I always had the opposite impression that the ones that chose to stay in Cardassian space became Cardassian citizens but the Federation still considered them such. That was much of the point of the original TNG episode. Which muddied things considerably.
In "Journey's End", the only way for settlers to stay put when the border moved was to switch citizenship. No dual passport or anything: Dorvan V would become a Cardassian world.
However, that didn't work too well, and apparently only that single planet ever did the switcharoo; all others were evacuated. When we next see the border, many UFP worlds and Cardassian worlds sit within the Demilitarized Zone (unlike Dorvan V, which was in militarized Cardassian space), ruled by their respective governments plus the extra "no guns" law.
So, two different ideas on how the UFP would deal with the moving border, one initial and clear-cut, one adopted as the direct consequence and fuzzier. But there never was any "neutral" space: everything was either UFP or CU, although a bit of each additionally was under the gun ban.
Timo Saloniemi
However, that didn't work too well, and apparently only that single planet ever did the switcharoo; all others were evacuated. When we next see the border, many UFP worlds and Cardassian worlds sit within the Demilitarized Zone (unlike Dorvan V, which was in militarized Cardassian space), ruled by their respective governments plus the extra "no guns" law.
So, two different ideas on how the UFP would deal with the moving border, one initial and clear-cut, one adopted as the direct consequence and fuzzier. But there never was any "neutral" space: everything was either UFP or CU, although a bit of each additionally was under the gun ban.
Timo Saloniemi
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The Milky Way Galaxy is extremely large, at some point the UFP would eventually meet another faction which has the same mission and how would they mesh? Would they wish to blend or be assimilated; it would be difficult to see Starfleet and UFP brand go away to be something other than what was established?
Very true, the current estimates on the structure of the Milkyway from a side Orthographic Perspective shows you how large it is.
NOTE: Image of Side Orthographic MilkyWay Galaxy ISN'T to-scale, only there for illustrative purposes.
The Galactic Center houses the SMBH (Super Massive Black Hole) in the center of our Galaxy
The Galactic Bulge is estimate that to have a Radius of ~6,500 ly | Diameter of ~13,000 ly
This Spheriod Area is more densely packed in stars than even the Thin Disk.
The Thin Disk is estimated to have a Radius of ~50,000 ly | Diameter of ~100,000 ly
Has a average thickness of 1,000 ly with the thicker sections ranging from 980-1,300 ly from various sources.
The thinner portions on the outter edge of the Thin Disk gets to about 400 ly.
That 100,000 ly Diameter is the same number as mentioned in Memory Alpha and in Star Trek lore.
The Thick Disk is estimated to have a Radius of ~129,000 ly | Diameter of ~258,000 ly.
What to say about the Thick Disk other than it envelopes the Thin Disk and is less dense in Star Systems then the Thin Disk.
The thickness of the Thick Disk from the side perspective ranges from 3.3-16,300 ly and will scale based on how far from the center you are.
The Galactic Halo is estimated to have a Radius of ~300,000 ly | Diameter of ~600,000 ly
And the number of Stars estimated in the Milky Way Galaxy is estimated to be over 3 billion to over 400 billion stars.
That's ALOT of stars to chart & map.
The UFP is just a tiny chunk of the overall Milky Way Galaxy.
That map really only covers the "Thin Disk" section where the vast majority of Stars are located.
The UFP stradles the line that seperates the Alpha & Beta Quadrant because that's how it was decided to be labelled.
And I don't think any merging of the UFP would happen very easily, it takes alot of bureaucratic push through on both sides for any mergers to happen when you have that many members in a Republic-style "Nation State" like the UFP.
Alliances can be made, we can all co-exist peacefully. There is enough room for all of us.
Even by the end of the 32nd Century, they stated that at it's peak, the UFP had 350 members in a Galaxy with Billions of Stars and who knows how many sentient organic species are out there.
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Yet in the 23rd century, the UFP had 150 or so members, but even mankind alone was on a thousand planets and spreading. "Member" may cover hundreds of inhabited star systems in the 23rd century, and tens of thousands in the 32nd.
So far, we haven't seen members who wouldn't be funny-looking humans (even Medusans are basically this). If the galactic halo is primarily inhabited by sentient interstellar clouds or subspace gossamers, would the failure to get them to sign count as "not everybody is a member"?
As for coexisting peacefully, like said, at some point the Feds would meet others like them, folks who'd push, and thus push back on the UFP. In order for the UFP to keep on pushing, such folks would need to be forced to cease and desist. It's hard to see how this would not lead into a situation where the UFP was mentally and physically unable to resist forcing everybody who pushed back. And those who wouldn't push back wouldn't really stand a chance.
Timo Saloniemi
So far, we haven't seen members who wouldn't be funny-looking humans (even Medusans are basically this). If the galactic halo is primarily inhabited by sentient interstellar clouds or subspace gossamers, would the failure to get them to sign count as "not everybody is a member"?
As for coexisting peacefully, like said, at some point the Feds would meet others like them, folks who'd push, and thus push back on the UFP. In order for the UFP to keep on pushing, such folks would need to be forced to cease and desist. It's hard to see how this would not lead into a situation where the UFP was mentally and physically unable to resist forcing everybody who pushed back. And those who wouldn't push back wouldn't really stand a chance.
Timo Saloniemi
Exactly. No need for a giant galaxy spanning political power. There can be alliances and peace without one giant organisation.
I'm thinking multiple medium sized nation states & lots of little ones.
Just look at Earth and our current Nation State setup.
The Star Trek Universe galaxy is somewhat different, though. In the centre is a planet surrounded by a force barrier, and a portal to a dimension where magic is real. And depending on the story, it can all be reached in a day or a lifetime.Very true, the current estimates on the structure of the Milkyway from a side Orthographic Perspective shows you how large it is.
NOTE: Image of Side Orthographic MilkyWay Galaxy ISN'T to-scale, only there for illustrative purposes.
The Galactic Center houses the SMBH (Super Massive Black Hole) in the center of our Galaxy
The Galactic Bulge is estimate that to have a Radius of ~6,500 ly | Diameter of ~13,000 ly
This Spheriod Area is more densely packed in stars than even the Thin Disk.
The Thin Disk is estimated to have a Radius of ~50,000 ly | Diameter of ~100,000 ly
Has a average thickness of 1,000 ly with the thicker sections ranging from 980-1,300 ly from various sources.
The thinner portions on the outter edge of the Thin Disk gets to about 400 ly.
That 100,000 ly Diameter is the same number as mentioned in Memory Alpha and in Star Trek lore.
The Thick Disk is estimated to have a Radius of ~129,000 ly | Diameter of ~258,000 ly.
What to say about the Thick Disk other than it envelopes the Thin Disk and is less dense in Star Systems then the Thin Disk.
The thickness of the Thick Disk from the side perspective ranges from 3.3-16,300 ly and will scale based on how far from the center you are.
The Galactic Halo is estimated to have a Radius of ~300,000 ly | Diameter of ~600,000 ly
And the number of Stars estimated in the Milky Way Galaxy is estimated to be over 3 billion to over 400 billion stars.
That's ALOT of stars to chart & map.
The UFP is just a tiny chunk of the overall Milky Way Galaxy.
That map really only covers the "Thin Disk" section where the vast majority of Stars are located.
The UFP stradles the line that seperates the Alpha & Beta Quadrant because that's how it was decided to be labelled.
And I don't think any merging of the UFP would happen very easily, it takes alot of bureaucratic push through on both sides for any mergers to happen when you have that many members in a Republic-style "Nation State" like the UFP.
Alliances can be made, we can all co-exist peacefully. There is enough room for all of us.
Even by the end of the 32nd Century, they stated that at it's peak, the UFP had 350 members in a Galaxy with Billions of Stars and who knows how many sentient organic species are out there.
In my personal canon, the federation eventually encompassed all sapient life in the Milky Way and later in all galaxies.
You can literally see "The Great Barrier" marked on my map along with where the planet Sybok took the crew too.
In Star Trek: Star Charts (p. 11), the Great Barrier is depicted as a spherical energy field engulfing the whole galactic core and all the stars within. The diameter of the Great Barrier is approximately 15,000 light years. The planet encountered in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier is not depicted to be at the center of the galaxy. Instead, it is at the outer edges of the energy field, some 7,000 light years away from the center.
You will be assimilated.
The Borg in Fluidic Space: "It's a nightmare. The Federation is everywhere. We can't go back!"
In the distant future, the Milky Way will turn into Galaxia, IE Asimov's living galaxy. Kinda like the collective, except gentle and you don't get metallic crap implanted in your body, it's a mental thing... A living galaxy would be so powerful that no alien civilization, no matter how advanced could ever threaten it.
Nah, Superclustera will assimilate Galaxia.
I discuss this in an earlier post.
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