Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy?

[JarodRussell]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I liked the Queen concept. She was the representation of "The Borg". The entire collective hive mind consisting of the minds of billions of drones creating a single individual - an individual that feels lonely and wants a companion. I think this was brilliant.

 

[exodus]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Just look at what happened to the Collective ever since she came to light.

Yeah, she added more depth to them which is what I already said was my stance.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I liked Voyager. I thought it had some good characters, quite a few well-written episodes (as not just Scorpion and the Killing Game, but Jetrel, Author, Author, Prey, and Tuvix were all good episodes I feel).

But one common criticism of the show is that the Borg were less intimidating than in TNG. Do you accept this criticism of the show?

Kind of..but the death blow for the Borg as a unique enemy came from FIRST CONTACT's creation of the queen. From there on it was all down hill..imo..

Rob

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy?

No. Two reasons:

1. I don't accept that the Borg are "dead" as a Trek enemy.

2. If the Borg are "dead" as a Trek enemy, that deed was accomplished by the TNG episode "I, Borg". Voyager simply worked with what was already in existence.

This of course leaves aside the argument that a truly invincible enemy makes for pretty dull TV in the first place (IMO, anyway)...but that's another issue altogether and not germane to this thread.

Holy crap... Hugh created Unimatrix Zero, didn't he?!

 

[exodus]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy?

No. Two reasons:

1. I don't accept that the Borg are "dead" as a Trek enemy.

2. If the Borg are "dead" as a Trek enemy, that deed was accomplished by the TNG episode "I, Borg". Voyager simply worked with what was already in existence.

This of course leaves aside the argument that a truly invincible enemy makes for pretty dull TV in the first place (IMO, anyway)...but that's another issue altogether and not germane to this thread.

Holy crap... Hugh created Unimatrix Zero, didn't he?!

If you watch every Borg story from "Q Who" thru to "Endgame"(even "First Contact" and especially Voyager's Borg stories.) It's all one big loose story arc. Everytime we encounter them, we learned something new about them. Every new bit of info gather leads up to a way to circumvent them. Hugh's virus combined with Icheb's is I believe what Adm. Janeway uses to cripple them in "Endgame".

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

It just never occurred to me. I always wondered how in the heck it could have happened, but Hugh makes perfect sense.

 

[Udat]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Yes, I think the Borg are less intimidating.

No, I don't blame Voyager.

I blame TNG movies for that. The moment the Borg had a queen and gained a 'face', it was the beginning of the end for them as super powered, amoral force of destruction.

Agreed

 

[Deks]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Just look at what happened to the Collective ever since she came to light.

Yeah, she added more depth to them which is what I already said was my stance.

To each their own.
In my opinion, she added very little if anything to the Borg.
She made the Collective too flawed and essentially an oversexed leader who doesn't know that the way to assimilate the Federation is to not keep sending 1 ship at a time, but to send a couple of hundred of ships (if they are adamant about the assimilation bit).

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I thought the best part of the Borg was the 'zombie' nature they had at the start. They just keep coming..no one to negotiate with..ect ect ect. By creating the queen they made the Borg just another race you could talk with. I bet, if Berman made another Trek series, one hundred years after TNG's time, there would have been a Borg crew member on the new Enterprise, just as they did with Worf/Klingons.

Rob

 

[jtkirk]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

The Borg were the most interesting during the Voyager appearances.

 

[exodus]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Just look at what happened to the Collective ever since she came to light.

Yeah, she added more depth to them which is what I already said was my stance.

To each their own.
In my opinion, she added very little if anything to the Borg.
She made the Collective too flawed and essentially an oversexed leader who doesn't know that the way to assimilate the Federation is to not keep sending 1 ship at a time, but to send a couple of hundred of ships .

Too bad that happened before they introduced the Queen, back when you claimed the Borg were a "force of nature". After the introduction of the Queen, they've shown the Borg sending more that one ship to assimilate worlds. Besides, if the Borg were as advanced over the Federation as you say and resistance is futile, why would they need to send more than one? That's showing that a Cube with over a billion drones can't do the job. One man out smarted over a billion of them during "BOBW". Some force of nature.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Actually, wasn't the Queen in BOBW, but not seen?

Rob

 

[froot]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Actually, wasn't the Queen in BOBW, but not seen?

Rob

First Contact retconned that in, didn't it? I can't quite remember.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Yep..she was there. So I guess he defeated her then...too. Or at least her plans. (Another reason that, for me, FC just doesn't hold up.)

Rob

 

[Noname Given]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I liked Voyager. I thought it had some good characters, quite a few well-written episodes (as not just Scorpion and the Killing Game, but Jetrel, Author, Author, Prey, and Tuvix were all good episodes I feel).

But one common criticism of the show is that the Borg were less intimidating than in TNG. Do you accept this criticism of the show?

You might consider this a 'drive by' of sorts as I honestly disliked VOY immensely (great premise but WHOLLY wasted execution); but to the question:

Honestly, no. TNG's I Borg; and later the Seasoin 6 finale Descent did that for the Borg imo; and First Contact put the final nail in. This was long before VOY really got a hold of them. VOY's Barbie of Borg though, certainly didn't help.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Meh, I think VOY's premise itself is what needed more work.

The Borg were basically done after "Best of Both Worlds", there wasn't really anyway to top that. But I don't mind their further appearances afterwards.

 

[exodus]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

Actually, wasn't the Queen in BOBW, but not seen?

Rob

Yes, they retro fitted her in the script but at the time of the actual BOBW, we knew nothing of any Queen.

 

[Linnis Paris]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I was wondering about this ONE cube did all the damage of Wolf 359 but Janeway can have like a dozen of them on her tail and come out fine. Did the Federation really gain that much in defending against them? Were the Borg really that distracted by Species 8472? Was Seven really that helpful?

Either way - The Borg episodes of VOY are my favorite. Then again the Borg are my fav non federation race. They are cool and still very scary. Loosing everything that makes you you but still being alive. Still just as creepy.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

But thats why, to me, they weren't scary. You could be saved from the Borg from I BORG onward. I think it ruined the zombie aspect of the Borg and made them more of a following than a great "hive" collective. IMO..

Rob

 

[Anwar]

Re: Do you accept that Voyager "killed" the Borg as a major Trek enemy

I was wondering about this ONE cube did all the damage of Wolf 359 but Janeway can have like a dozen of them on her tail and come out fine.

That's hyperbole, they were never chased by dozens of Cubes. They had dozens of Cubes FLY BY them while running away from the 8472, but they never had that many chase them.