Do ST ship sizes make 100% sense?

[shipfisher]

I've always thought that the crew size of ships in the TNG era didn't make much sense. 400-odd crew on a Constitution-class...but only 1,000-odd on a Galaxy-class, which is significantly larger in volume? I don't know the specific stats, but IIRC the Galaxy is something like 20x larger in volume and deck space than the Constitution was.

Doesn't make sense.

Ii seems that only a relatively small percentage of the crew have their families in tow aboard the 1701D, and the crew quarters we do see are more like luxury apartments when compared to TOS standards. Steadily increasing emphasis on crew comfort and related facilities (holodecks, etc.), along with expanded research and cargo/passenger capacity (I believe the galaxy class ships even launch with a certain volume of space-frame available for mission-specific applications, etc.), might make a crew only 2.5 times larger than the constitution class seem just about right.

If a standard crew compliment of 1000 is what we've got, then adjust the facts to make that a good fit.

 

[SicOne]

^ I agree, BUT...why build these colossal ships if they're not going to USE all of that available space? There should be two or three thousand people in one of these things, making good use of the ship and all of its resources. Instead, it's like a 20-story hotel with only three or four guests on each floor.

Granted, money works differently in their universe, but it doesn't seem very worthwhile or productive to build these massive ships and only use a fraction of its resources. It's not a very good return on Starfleet's investment.

 

[shipfisher]

^ As you say, the money thing probably runs a little differently in the trekverse. With multiple solar systems worth of resources and essentially unlimited energy at their disposal, traditional economic impediments to what we might see as excess aren't a factor for future feddies.

 

[Tomalak]

The crew required to simply fly and maintain a fed starship is probably quite small, but the purpose of the ship is to allow as large a group as is practical to "seek out and explore...", oh, and kick alien butt when required.

'Xactly. The ships don't have a "crew requirement" - they have a "crew capacity".

There must be a minimum needed to maintain all the systems, even if you only run the bare essentials. Plus the medical staff to look after them. So there must be some sort of "requirement" needed to physically operate the ship, and subsequently the more people you have on board, and the more departments you have, the more support staff you need.

I know Voyager showed a few times that you could run the ship with pretty much one person and the computer, but that was only for a few days, and the ship wouldn't operate at its best. 'One' for example, the Doctor and Seven of Nine spend most of their time repairing the ship. Also in 'Workforce' the Doctor could just about save the ship, but couldn't think about mounting a rescue because he had his holohands full with repairs to the ship. There's TNG '11001001' and 'Remember Me' as well, but both extreme circumstances.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I've always thought that the crew size of ships in the TNG era didn't make much sense. 400-odd crew on a Constitution-class...but only 1,000-odd on a Galaxy-class, which is significantly larger in volume? I don't know the specific stats, but IIRC the Galaxy is something like 20x larger in volume and deck space than the Constitution was.

I can understand that advances in technology and automation would eliminate many crew positions and you wouldn't need as many technicians or support personnel due to replicators and advanced diagnostics...but it seems to me a gross underutilization of resources to have a Galaxy-class starship that can hold several thousand people in an evacuation situation, and that can probably support a general crew of two or three thousand without taxing its resources. We know there's general science teams aboard, and many specialist teams as well running experiments and exploring the galaxy in minute detail, but a crew of only one thousand, INCLUDING families?

Doesn't make sense.

I remember someone on these boards working out that the Ent-D could fit 10,000, assuming most quarters are the sizes we see on the show. Maybe my memory's full of swiss cheese, though.

 

[Captain Rob]

Maybe they just completely pulled the 1100 number out of their ass. Or used a dartboard. Or went bowling and added their scores together. Or they saw a side-by-side comparision to the Enterprise-A which had a crew of 500. Saw that the D wa twice as big, doubled the 500 to 1000. And added 100 civilians. Who knows.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think Galaxy-class ships were built around the idea that the design would still be around into the mid 25th-Century, so they were made with future expansion in mind so that the design would still be viable for decades to come. Fifty years from now, Galaxy-class ships may have standard crew complents well in excess of 3,000 and contain many new onboard features that currently don't even exist yet, IMO. Technological advancements might also call for the ship to be equipped/upgraded with new onboard systems that might not be possible on a more compact or densely filled vessel presently. Rather than go through the process of designing, building, and testing an all-new design for a new technology, it could be more easily installed aboard a Galaxy-class ship that has room to spare for it.

Ideally, a Galaxy-class ship would be the only Federation vessel in its theatre of operations. The size of the vessel and its seemingly excess space was probably considered a necessary expenditure to allow the vessel to carry out the widest range of solo missions far from the nearest Federation member world or Starfleet reinforcements.

During its early conceptual stages, a lead designer at the Utopia Planitia Yards might have said "It's better for the ship to have extra space and not need it most of the time, than to need it desperately just one time and not have it..."

 

[sojourner]

This thread needs to crossover with the "spare warp coils" thread.

 

[Captain Rob]

Maybe all of that extra space includes a completely dissassembled warp nacelle including spare warp coils. I still say that thing from ENT "Damage" should have been a warp plasma injector assembly. Too damned small for a warp coil.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Or the Galaxy uses that space for facilities that are more massive than any other Starfleet ships.

Giant cargo bays, buttloads of fuel, more shuttles than you could shake a stick at, an expansive medical complex, giant science labs, a storage room full of that one piece of equipment with the red neon light tubes that blink in sequence, particle colliders, a giant arboretum, a large concourse/crew common space in the saucer, that cool thingy that can make antimatter, dolphins.

I basically see the Galaxy-class as being a flying starbase, of sorts.

There's that, and "room for future expansion".

 

[Captain Rob]

Well I seem to remember that on the blueprints that the D's primary hull shuttlebay was abso-frakking-lutely huge. And I think that the dolphins were on there too. That in the 24th century humans can communicate with them and they are expert navigators beyond human capability. In space? Don't think so.
And don't they need somewhere to have all of the printers? Today we have all of these fast computers and more crap to print out and keep than ever before. Just think how much crap they have to print out by then. The blank paper and printed reports could take up half of the ship.
I can see it now. The warp core explodes and all that's left is a billion reams of charred paper floating endlessly forever in space. Oh look, I found five copies of Captain Picard's notes on his speech to the crew about gambling aboard ship. They say his cut is 20% of the pot. 25% if Data's playing poker.

 

[Deks]

If you recall, the situation with Harem on Deck 15 on Voy (Good Shepard episode) was that he WANTED to be down there at all times.
Torres tried giving him more responsibilities but he never does the work.

It implies, the deflector doesn't need someone to sit at the controls all the time.
Crew tasks are varied in order to break monotony and for people to occupy themselves for the duration of their shifts.

Have you seen what happened when Voyager entered a region of space devoid of stars in episode 'Night'?
The automation on the ship gave everyone plenty of time to do what they wanted, with but a small portion of the crew acting as maintenance.

In regions of space populated with stars, there's always 'something' that either affects ship systems, is of exploratory interest, etc.

The Galaxy class having a crew of 1014 was predominantly due to it's size.
Most of the crew were likely civilians while the rest were SF personnel.

The Sovereign class for example is in contrast to Voyager still pretty big, and despite the fact we weren't given an exact number of the crew canonically speaking, estimates go from 600 to 800.

SF still needs to populate a ship adequately.

 

[Tomalak]

Or the Galaxy uses that space for facilities that are more massive than any other Starfleet ships.

Giant cargo bays, buttloads of fuel, more shuttles than you could shake a stick at, an expansive medical complex, giant science labs, a storage room full of that one piece of equipment with the red neon light tubes that blink in sequence, particle colliders, a giant arboretum, a large concourse/crew common space in the saucer, that cool thingy that can make antimatter, dolphins

Absolutely!

The Enterprise-D wasn't just a big ship, it was a wondrous ship, even for seasoned Starfleet officers. Look at the awe on Riker's face when he sees it for the first time in 'Encounter at Farpoint'. He doesn't know how to ask the computer for the location of a crewmember, he's impressed by the scale of the holodecks, and many visiting dignitaries specifically ask to see the amazing things they've heard about from these new ships.

The computer core is supposed to be the most amazing thing ever, she's impossibly fast, and has the nifty saucer separation feature. Captain Garrett (from only twenty years previously) can't believe the sickbay, it's unlike anything she's seen, even on the largest starbase.

The scale and resources of the ship is totally unprecedented, so nothing's impossible.

 

[publiusr]

Well said.

Growing up, even TOS Enterprise was the largest craft I had ever seen. It left the rocket ships of the previous decade lacking. If anything, the faded effects made the ship look larger, less model like, like the Smoky Mountains.

Now, when I look at merzo.net and other ship comparison charts, trek ships look small. To me that is a travesty, thus my not having a problem with JJ's take.

 

[shanejayell]

I always figured there was a certain degree of redundancy built into the staff too. If something cataclysmic happens they would want enough trained staff to survive and take over the jobs of the crew lost.

 

[Eld Phaedrus]

IIRC the standard compliment of Ent-D was a little over a thousand crew and civilians. Compare that to today's aircraft carriers, whose usual compliment is five times that for a Nimitz-class, same with the Enterprise. Of course with advanced automation, Starfleet doesn't require large crews for its ships.