Dixon Hill vs The Royale

[Alexander Corrino]

Damn straight! The Royale is an underrated surrealistic romp.

It's my favorite TNG episode (fan favorites bore me, I like the surreal stuff much better). I just love the 80s casino thing and the really somewhat dark/disturbing sub plot about the astronaut being trapped in that hotel for decades.

 

[Armus]

It's my favorite TNG episode (fan favorites bore me, I like the surreal stuff much better). I just love the 80s casino thing and the really somewhat dark/disturbing sub plot about the astronaut being trapped in that hotel for decades.

The episode was heavily rewritten. It was supposed to be a show about loneliness and Colonel Ritchie had a speaking part. The producers took the script away from Tracy Torme and cut the budget. It still turned out a cool episode.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

The episode was heavily rewritten. It was supposed to be a show about loneliness and Colonel Ritchie had a speaking part. The producers took the script away from Tracy Torme and cut the budget. It still turned out a cool episode.

As much as I'd have loved for Colonel Richey to get a speaking part... I think it worked anyway, if not even better. The things that are left UNsaid are far more powerful, at least to me.

 

[Qonundrum]

I just don't see the quality shining through in the Dixon Hill stuff, to say it's so much better than the Royale. Heck, the Johnny character Guinan is interacting with in Clues is one of the hackiest Humphrey Bogart impersonations imaginable, as is the Felix Leech/Peter Lorre knockoff. There's the sleazy cop coming on to Beverly. The corny receptionist. stereotype etc...

I suppose we have to accept that these stories are somehow filtered through how Picard himself has programmed them into the holodeck program, but he seems utterly impressed with how true to form they are, & they seem pretty lame lol

Part of that might be due to season 1 & 2 and TNG finding itself. Which is a shame as, had Dixon HIll really worked, it'd sell the trope of pointing out hack material without feeling unpolished itself. And Tracy Torme is known for some very creative work (e.g. "Sliders").

I still prefer the potential of "The Royale", and even liked it on my last viewing. It's been a while... it's been forever since I'd seen "Big Goobye", which sets up Picard's fondness for ye olde material. The Troi in me senses another marathon coming on... (I hope that's not obvious! )

That's a fair point but I put that down to the fact that it's the story they were trying to tell, which is really the simplest explanation and answer to many of the questions posed on this message board. The story wouldn't have worked if Jean Luc rolled his eyes at Dixon Hill, like he did with The Royale.

^^this

The A-Team ROCKED! I just watched a couple episodes the other day. Yeah, it's cheesy but it was, and is, a fun show to watch.

I too enjoyed "The A-Team". It was cartoonish, but how it balanced that with the characterizations (and many shows with such a wide mix of out-there characters is one I'm a sucker for because a gaggle of stick figures is an utter bore. If they were cows, it'd be an udder bore. Now I'm thirsty for some milk. Wait, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, cookies to go with the milk... made with real chocolate chips and not cow chips...) Anyhoo, about the characters:

• BA Baracus - the no-nonsense strongman, mechanic, and for dramatic flair hates Murdoch.
  
• Murdoch - highly intelligent crazy goofy guy that BA can't stand. Naturally these two character archetypes would have a natural conflict, which - for me, anyway - never fails to entertain. It's like the double act of Kerr Avon and Vila Restal, the best two characters in all of sci-fi.
  
• Hannibal - the leader who can also blend into any situation, and is a master of disguise.
  
• The Faceman - the persuader and charming con artist.

It's a great combination of great character archetypes. Alone, they don't always work well. As an ensemble with foils, they're amazing and there's a balance that works. I'm tempted to do a rewatch just so I can whine and nitpick various scenes. But I could sit through a lot of Knight Rider and still be impressed, even forgiving some of the (sometimes huge) leeway with technological accuracy - like how Bonnie can make a new CPU along with numerous shark jumping features for KITT in season 4 when there's no fabrication plant, just a garage... but that's season 4. Seasons 1-2 were the most polished and did much for the high-concept show (Hasselhoff plays it with the level of sincerity needed and with Daniels' voice of KITT they nailed it), and 3 still had some moments of greatness. One can even tell in a couple episodes some similarities between KARR and TNG's Lore... though KARR's premiere was the better episode of the two, and scenes were cut out of the season 3 episode that would have been in its favor... including the new paint job? (The ending was still funny, just his CPU/UI interface pulsating on the sand... somebody picks up and for a sequel he's not in the body of... a tricycle? We will never know, though anyone finding it would be curious enough to do what it would want and that's the fun part.)

But I digressed again, surprise surprise... Add in the actors who were clearly well-chosen for their roles and, yup, I'd say the show being a hit was deserved and then some because the show hit it out of the ballpark that quickly. One may not remember all the stories, but the characters are immortal.

A-Team's violence is about as over the top as everything else, and how all the elements coalesce... IMHO, it had some great moments, but the format did get stale and the revamp - at least on paper - was not bad IMHO, but not enough to keep the show going.

 

[Qonundrum]

As much as I'd have loved for Colonel Richey to get a speaking part... I think it worked anyway, if not even better. The things that are left UNsaid are far more powerful, at least to me.

That's the downer. It would be bold to attempt such a thing but the risk therein is providing dialogue to explain away things that could fall flat and rob the episode of its power, rendering it worse as a result.

It's also supposition time: Given that Guinan and Data have more natural humor on screen than The Comic in all their shared screens together, while the episode had its heart in the right places, it still misfired. In other words, the budget cut and excised script (is the original dialogue available?) may have been for the best and removing a potential misfire...?

 

[Qonundrum]

^^and you know what the really sad and most embarrassing part is, Mr. McWhiskers? I just cross-referenced "The Royale" with "The Outrageous Okona" and still am trying to figure out why because they're two different episodes, though keeping misfired scenes as few as possible never hurts when editing a whole year's worth of goodies, writers' strike or otherwise...

 

[Alexander Corrino]

^^and you know what the really sad and most embarrassing part is, Mr. McWhiskers? I just cross-referenced "The Royale" with "The Outrageous Okona" and still am trying to figure out why because they're two different episodes, though keeping misfired scenes as few as possible never hurts when editing a whole year's worth of goodies, writers' strike or otherwise...

I was considering saying something about "The Royale" NOT having that awful sub plot with Data and The Comic (since Data is busy with gambling) but then I thought "nah, too nitpicky, self, too nitpicky"...

I do agree with you that Richey's story probably worked so well for me because there were such few details, and no actual appearance from him (other than his remains in the bed). I do love Riker reading the only entry from his diary, that scene is really haunting in some way.

 

[Herbert]

A-Team's violence is about as over the top as everything else,

Yeah but it was essentially cartoon violence. No one got killed and no one got seriously hurt. B.A. could toss people over cars and then the next scene we see them, they're okay. Not even a bruise You'll notice that every time a car flipped, they made a point of showing the viewer that the people inside of the car got out and were essentially okay, if shaken up a bit.

I think in the entire show, only two people actually got shot and those were central to that episode's plot. Otherwise, thousands of bullet would fly about and no one would get hit. Compare that to shows today where beatings and homicide are a normal occurrence. I'll take the cartoon violence any day.