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Divinginto the Sopranos.

Ok, I've obviously missed something in my 32 years of life but... I didn't know there was so much "nationalism" between Italians and the rest of the country.

It's identity politics. I guess most major ethnic groups in the United States have them.

Though the one bit I liked about "Christopher" is that Furio didn't like Columbus because he was from the North. Identity politics just aren't the same back in the Old Country, eh?
 
Christopher was one of those episodes where I felt they were trying too hard to make their point, especially since the show dealt the issue of Italian American identity more subtly in the past. I'm not a big fan of it, and season 4 is my least favourite, although there are some excellent episodes even here.

And Silvio, well.

Maybe he quotes Godfather III! You'll never know.
Even on The Soprano's worst episode, they wouldn't stoop so low as to borrow from The Godfather Part III. :p
 
Christopher was one of those episodes where I felt they were trying too hard to make their point, especially since the show dealt the issue of Italian American identity more subtly in the past. I'm not a big fan of it, and season 4 is my least favourite, although there are some excellent episodes even here.

And didn't Columbous have almost nothing to do with the discovery of America?

Anyway I did love the last scene in the car with the group riding home. Tony is going on some rant about people focusing on identites and such (this from a man who in the first season ranted about people not knowing who "really" invented the telephone and how Italians are always being "profiled" as being criminals) and mentions Gary Cooper in the agrument along with the group "the gays." Chris, toking one in the back of the car, dimly says "He was gay, Gary Cooper?"

:lol:
 
I started watching it recently myself. I'm currently on the second disc of season two. So far, it's a relatively engrossing show. I still have some trouble with how slow it can be occasionally, and the household drama can get dull, but overall it's a well written and acted show. I really like Tony, and I hope it continues to be a good program.
 
I got the sense it was less about Nationalism and more about being "meta" and addressing critics who complained about the show stereotyping Italians. That and the inherent irony of characters that fit the stereotype complaining about people assuming they were mobsters because they were Italian.
 
Possibly, but then all of these guys worship classic mobster movies like The Godfather, Goodfellas, etc. And I don't know anyone who thinks "Italian = Mafia" but it's usually not too a stretch to think "Mafia = Italian."

And though it "seems" that way, both "equations" don't mean the same thing.
 
I just had one of those "retroactively getting a joke" moments. Sort-of like Data in "Generations."

I was play GTA IV earlier today and I began thinking of GTA III, a game I played very heavily back in 2001/2002 when it came out. In GTA III there's a talk-radio station, "Chatterbox", that has a caller who comes on complaining about his oppresive mother; talking to the radio station's host as-if he's a call in therpaist. The caller speaks with a thick Italian accent, and even in the course of the game becomes one your contacts for jobs, and has the name "Tony." It was funny back then when I played the game just because of the absurdity of it.

Today, I realize it was likely a "dig" at Tony Soprano who complained to his therapist (Melfi) about his oppresive mother Livia in the first two seasons.
 
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I could listen to "Chatterbox" for hours when I played GTA III. Good times. :)

"Chatterbox" was the station I mostly kept it on myself (also found the cab to the best "general use" car as it seemed to have the best handling of all of the cars in the game) when playing. The "talk radio" station in the future counterparts just weren't as good as Chatterbox. :(
 
I remember sitting in my car down by the water for an hour so that I could listen to all of Chatterbox (if I drove I would have crashed too much and caused the car to explode). Very funny stuff.

GTA III has a few connections with the Sopranos: Luigi was voiced by Joe Pantoliano (Ralph), Salvatore Leone was voiced by Frank Vincent (Phil Leotardo, in the later seasons), and the bent cop Ray was voiced by Robert Loggia (Feech La Manna, in a couple of episodes). Also, in GTA: Liberty City Stories, you played as Toni Cipriani and did a number of missions to impress your mother, but she was always disappointed with you and eventually hired hitmen to kill you.
 
Laslow's "on-the-street" talk radio station in GTA IV isn't quite as good. :(

Okay, I'm about to finish Season 4 of The Sopranos and found it to be a good season with some good story lines for some th major characters, most notably Chirstopher and the building relationship between Bobby and Janice. I'm afraid Adrianna isn't long for the world given her involvment as an FBI informant.

Little AJ is a prick, Tony should've sent him to military school.

Good stuff with Tony and Milfi this season, nice to Svetlana back and the relationship between her and Tony was an interesting surprise. (And though I suppose to logistics of filming such a thing made it impossible to do, it would've been nice to see her and Tony's copulation.)

Though I don't think Carmella was "wrong" in her pursuit of a relationship with Furio (given all of the mistresses Tony keeps) it seemed... off. As I suspect that she "accepted" Tony's infedelity and she herself was "beyond" such a thing. (Granted, she was never infedelious with Furio she certainly making advancments towards the guy.) The scene where Tony tries to be "playful" with Carm (when similar antics proved fun with his latest mistress) showed the "strain of time" on their relationship; namely they were no longer a young, game-playing, couple which Tony wants to be with his mates.

We see more of that "good" in Tony this season when he seems to show some regrets over the car saleswoman who killed herself, whom Tony last season had a relationship with and Tony's animal-loving through the race horse. Still a fair amount of "good" in this in spite of his job. Paulie, for my money, was underused and Christophers drug problem was nicely used and played in the season. Also, not enough Meadow in the last half of the season after the first-half used her as a manipulative young girl not wanting to take responsibility for her life and using the excuse of losing a friend the past season as a "reason" she wouldn't do "important" things like register for school. (yet she'd still hang out with friends.)

Uncle Junior an Tony's relationship was fun to watch and grow this season and Junior feigning senility for the sake of getting some easement during his trial was fun.

Ralph was a character I didn't much like as he was just more douchebag than he was "hard-assed mobster," but he was fun in that respects. And man given how much heat Junior was afraid he'd get (and did get) for performing cunnilingus on one of his girlfriends I can only imagine the heat Ralph would've taken if his proclivities got out! :eek: Still, seeing Tony kill Ralph was satisfying and one of the more grizzlier "death scenes" of the series between the beating and Tony's and Christopher's dispatching of the remains.

Still a good show and it's clear to me how 'weak' the Second Season really was considering how good the other seasons have been.

Ratings: Series as a whole: A-
Season 1: A+
Season 2: B-
Season 3: A
Season 4: A-

Favorite episode (other than pilot): "Pine Barrens."
 
Good stuff with Tony and Milfi this season, nice to Svetlana back and the relationship between her and Tony was an interesting surprise. (And though I suppose to logistics of filming such a thing made it impossible to do, it would've been nice to see her and Tony's copulation.)
Svetlana was a great character. I liked Gloria, too. Both affairs brought up the issue of what Tony is attracted to in women. You can see two different patterns - psychologically balanced women of strong spirit (Carmela, Melfi, Svetlana), or difficult, needy, volatile, (self)destructive women that, as Melfi pointed out, have that in common with his mother (Gloria was the most obvious example, but Irina had some of those traits as well). On the other hand, it is obvious that Tony's extramarital love interests tend to be, more and more often, strong independent women (starting with Melfi, then Gloria, Svetlana, and there's another successful professional that he becomes interested in later on, which prompts him to notice that he has a thing for that type of woman) that he admires because they are able to make it on their own - which underlines the problems in his marriage to Carmela. Carmela is a strong woman who could have made it on her own, but had chosen a life of the mafia wife instead, willing to overlook Tony's crimes, as well as his infidelities, to keep up her life of comfort. There was a scene in season 3 when Carmela met Gloria but had no idea who she was, when Gloria hinted at that when she said that at least her daughter won't have to latch to a man for success (but the implication went over Carmela's head), and Tony spells it out in that brilliant break-up scene in season 4, where all the mutual resentment comes out and they both throw all their anger and accusations at each other.

Though I don't think Carmella was "wrong" in her pursuit of a relationship with Furio (given all of the mistresses Tony keeps) it seemed... off. As I suspect that she "accepted" Tony's infedelity and she herself was "beyond" such a thing. (Granted, she was never infedelious with Furio she certainly making advancments towards the guy.)
I don't understand what you mean here. :confused: You're not saying that Carmela shouldn't have affairs even though Tony does it all the time, are you? :shifty: :vulcan:

We see more of that "good" in Tony this season when he seems to show some regrets over the car saleswoman who killed herself, whom Tony last season had a relationship with and Tony's animal-loving through the race horse. Still a fair amount of "good" in this in spite of his job.
Tony's murder of Ralphie was one of the more memorable moments in the show for me, and made for one of the two best episodes of the season. There's a subtle reminder of the events of "University" in season 3 at the end of the episode - when Tony, after having disposed of Ralphie's body, is in the Bada Bing, looking at the mirror, we can see a picture of Tracee over the mirror. I think that the death of Tony's beloved horse was a straw that broke the camel's back, but that it was just the logical end of Tony's long standing resentment against Ralphie that had to give way at some point. While beating up Ralphie, Tony shouts "Why did you have to kill her? She was a beautiful harmless creature who never did anyone any wrong!" which refers to the horse, but could also refer to Tracee.

Ralph was a character I didn't much like as he was just more douchebag than he was "hard-assed mobster," but he was fun in that respects.
Ralphie's role was - kind of like Richie in season 3 - basically to be an antagonist to Tony who is a "Complete Monster", in contrast to Tony who shows some goodness despite his crimes.

And man given how much heat Junior was afraid he'd get (and did get) for performing cunnilingus on one of his girlfriends I can only imagine the heat Ralph would've taken if his proclivities got out! :eek:
Wait till you see season 6! That's all I'm going to say...
 
I don't understand what you mean here. :confused: You're not saying that Carmela shouldn't have affairs even though Tony does it all the time, are you? :shifty: :vulcan:

No, no, no no. If Carmela had an affair it'd be little of a bid deal considering Tony's affairs. But Carmela stuck me as "better than that" that she wasn't the kind of person to have affairs and mostly just "put up with it" with Tony unless it got into the house and the kids were exposed to it. She seemed "better than" having an affair simply out of spite.

But her attraction to Furio seemed to be nothing more than that, just her heart fluttering over something new. It also seemed to me that she "accepted" Tony's affairs and Tony would be a hypocrite if he were to disallow Carm from having affairs of her own. And, yeah, over the course of the series it is interesting to see the kind of women Tony is interested in and how his mistresses contrast with Carmela. (Including that one nutter.)

I'm a little put-off by the time-gap between Season 4 and Season 5. Something like two years have elapsed and it seems that other than Janice and Bobby everyone elses lives have stopped. Tony and Carmella really maintained a trail seperation living in different homes for two years? Tony didn't contact Melfi at all over that time? AJ is still a little pussy?

Seems odd and the "gap" between Seasons 4 and 5 seems like it should've been smaller than the real-world one. Because it makes no sense that life just stopped for everyone but Bobby and Janice over this time. Hell, how is Tony not doing something as simple as living in his own place?! And maybe I've missed it what happened with Junior and his trial? Since the jury was deadlocked it seems to me a re-trial would've started up. Adriana has still maintained her infromant status? She's really been leading this "double life" all of this time and kept everything secret? Tony and Artie are still on the outs?

(Granted I'm only a couple episodes into this season and need to give the episodes a re-watch and I was distracted during them so maybe some of this stuff is clearer.)

Anyway, a great series that I've really liked.
 
I don't understand what you mean here. :confused: You're not saying that Carmela shouldn't have affairs even though Tony does it all the time, are you? :shifty: :vulcan:

No, no, no no. If Carmela had an affair it'd be little of a bid deal considering Tony's affairs. But Carmela stuck me as "better than that" that she wasn't the kind of person to have affairs and mostly just "put up with it" with Tony unless it got into the house and the kids were exposed to it. She seemed "better than" having an affair simply out of spite.

But her attraction to Furio seemed to be nothing more than that, just her heart fluttering over something new. It also seemed to me that she "accepted" Tony's affairs and Tony would be a hypocrite if he were to disallow Carm from having affairs of her own.
Well I didn't think she would have an affair out of spite... but simply out because she was attracted to, or fell for another man. We've seen her attracted to a few men during the course of the show. And she did say to Tony that she had been in love with Furio. The thing with priest was, of course, never going to go anywhere, even before Carmela saw through him. The guy in season 2 (?), Vic something, that she kissed, ran away the moment he realized who her husband was. And Furio told the guy in Italy (it was a while ago so I don't remember if that old guy was his cousin or what?) that he was in love with Carmela, but the mafia has its rules, and he would have to kill Tony to have her, which he wasn't ready to do. (Especially since it would probably mean he'd be killed afterwards by Tony's crew.)

The mob in The Sopranos was shown to still uphold very patriarchal, "macho" and hypocritical rules. If Carmela had an affair and people found out about it, it wouldn't even matter if Tony himself was OK with it - Tony would have to kill the guy or mess him up so badly he wished he was dead, only to save face in front of the other mobsters.
 
True, I mean if you can't eat a woman out without getting some business I guess you sure-as-heck can't let her cheat on you. ;)
 
There is an episode of Season Four called "Everybody Hurts" which is almost universally despised. However, it's one of my favorites. It's the one where Tony finds out Gloria killed herself and goes apeshit in Melfi's office. Such a raw moment that's fabulously acted.
 
Season Five: Done.

All and all a "meh" season. The season-long turf-war plot arc seemed, sort-of boring and not too well developed. Milfi was given little to do (even a couple of episodes with her and Tony trying a relationship would've been nice) and not enough Meadow. (But I can really never get enough of her. ;))

I really liked Steve Buscemi as "Little Tony" and wished his character could've stuck around but still enjoyed his min-arc. The other arc with Tony and Carm getting back together was also nicely done and it seemed they got back together "naturally", even though -honestly- Tony never "really" said he wouldn't cheat on her, he just said that it wouldn't get into their home life anymore. ;)

God, AJ is worthless. Tony should just give the kid up and convince Carmella they start over with a new son.

The episode inside Tony's dream was very interesting but I'm not sure it paid of in any way. It just seemed more there to be bizzare for the sake of being bizzare and different. Because all hard-hitting, top-notch, drama shows have to have a "dream episode" to get into the mind of our main-character.

Oh an Adrianna gets offed for being a rat, I'm sure this will go-over well with Christopher in the end. Shame to see her go but when she became an informant for the FBI I knew she wasn't long for the world. I'll miss you A, mostly your ass, but I'll miss you.

Not much strikes me as worth mentioning right now, just a so-so season overall. Were it not for Buschemi it'd probably be the worst season.

Up next Season 6 (Part 1), I don't own it yet and it'll probably be a couple of weeks before I can budget it in.

Season 1: A+
Season 2: B-
Season 3: A
Season 4: A-
Season 5: B-
 
Season 5 was the first season I saw, so perhaps I'm being nostalgic, but I really like it. There's a new dynamic this season with Tony and Carmela being separated, the Melfi scenes have a purpose in getting Tony to admit what happened with Tony B all those years ago, Steven Bushemi was great, the Adrianna arc had a tragic end, and there was an episode filled with shots of a sweaty Meadow Soprano. ;) Plus, The Test Dream is one of my favourite episodes in the show.

Milfi was given little to do (even a couple of episodes with her and Tony trying a relationship would've been nice)
Melfi would never date Tony, she couldn't justify it to herself. She resolved that part of her arc in Employee of the Month, for her to start dating Tony would have been character regression.

The episode inside Tony's dream was very interesting but I'm not sure it paid of in any way. It just seemed more there to be bizzare for the sake of being bizzare and different. Because all hard-hitting, top-notch, drama shows have to have a "dream episode" to get into the mind of our main-character.
The episode was filled with meaning, although I must admit that I didn't catch on to a lot of it at first. The point of the dream (as I see it) was that Tony's subconscious was preparing him for the fact that he was going to have to kill Tony B even though he didn't want to. That was the test he wasn't prepared for, and when Tony met with Johnny Sack in the next episode, Tony refused to do what needed to be done until way too late. That one act of compassion/regret, is possibly the biggest "business" mistake Tony ever made, so it's good that there's an episode that explained why Tony screwed it up.

Another thing that I didn't notice until I saw the episode again last year; when Tony dreams about having sex with Charmaine Bucco, you can hear horse sounds, which transitions into the next scene where Tony tells Carmela he wants to get back together while sitting on a horse, but she tells him that he can't bring the horse with him. I can't believe it took me 3 viewings to figure that one out. :lol:
 
The bit in his dream where he's pounding the hell out of her, with Artie giving him instructions, will haunt my nightmares for a long time to come.
 
Season Five is my second favorite season. It just clicked with me on all levels. The therapy scene where Tony has his panic attack is absolutely amazing.
 
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