I also have a bit of a mild-feak out whenever I see "Allen Coulter" from the side of my eye in the opening credits. It makes me want to hurl something at my TV and/or shut it off. 
Divinginto the Sopranos.
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
In a way, Melfi was a 1-season character that just kept showing up.
Originally, The Sopranos was a concept David Chase had for a movie, it was going to be about a mobster whose mother was pulling the strings in order to get him killed, and the guy's psychiatrist is the one that puts the puzzle together and warns him. But David Chase was told that he wasn't going to get a film deal and that he'd be better off pitching TV shows. He agreed, so he took his film concept and turned it into a TV show and, after FOX turned it down, he managed to sell it to HBO. The plot of the movie was then extended over a season and that was it, the story was over.
Then the show was picked up for a second season, but David Chase had already played out the story he was trying to tell, so the second season comes across as an after-thought. One of the iconic things about the first season was that Tony was seeing a psychiatrist, so they had to keep that in the show even though it no longer had a real purpose. That's not to say that Dr Melfi is completely useless from here on out, she still has some great moments, and there's a very good episode centred around her coming up early in season 3, but she never again achieves the clarity of purpose that she had in season 1.
I agree with most of this, with the caveat that season 6 part 1 didn't hold up well for me on repeated viewings, but season 6 part 2 did. So my favourite seasons are 1, 3, 5 and 6 part 2 (7), which is the opposite of the Star Trek movie curse.
I think that season 2 is good, but weaker than seasons 1 and 3. Season 3 is awesome. Season 4 is weaker, but gets much better towards the end and has a great finale. Season 5 also gets better towards the end and features some of the strongest and most emotionally devastating moments, I know I was really struck by something that happens towards the end. Season 6 is much better than most people give it credit for. Overall, I liked seasons 1 and 3 the best, but the show never 'jumped the shark' and you can be sure it's well worth watching.
Warning: vague spoilers ahead (IMO not so outright that I would use spoiler tags)
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You get to see the dark side of Tony more and more throughout the later seasons, though they never go as far as to make him thoroughly unsympathetic, and you always get to see an exploration of his psychology, his issues and background (though later on, it's more often through dream scenes and such rather than the sessions with Melfi). The other thing that keeps Tony from becoming the "bad guy" is that he is usually pitted against an opponent who is far worse than he is, which emphasizes some of the Tony's positive traits and the lines he wouldn't cross - you just have to find yourself thinking, he may be bad, but he's not that bad as this character. In season 1, this role is played by Livia, in season 2 it's Richie, in the next seasons... well, you'll see. But even so, the later seasons see Tony crossing some lines where you really have to question your attitude to him.
Tony's marriage with Carmela also gets really dissected for all its inherent problems - there is a great episode in one of the later seasons where all the issues and the resentment on both sides comes to the fore. I never thought that their marriage was healthy by any means so I was delighted when the show dealt with it increasingly throughout the first few seasons. The fact that Tony is a big hypocrite, just like all of the mafia guys, because the "understanding" they share about his infidelities does not extend to Carmela even trying to do something similar, is not lost on the show... and some of his extramarital relationships are treated more seriously and play in a bigger role than has so far been the case with anything but his crush on Melfi (in season 3 and 4 in particular), and you get a diagnosis about what it is that actually draws him to certain types of women.
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The show also deals with masculinity in the 20/21st century, deconstructing the "tough guy" stereotype big time, showing the issues, insecurities and psychological problems of tough guys (which provides many moments that are either hilarious or very moving), while also emphasizing (maybe even too much occasionally...) the attraction and fascination that a lot of people feel for "tough guys", "Alpha males" and "bad boys".
That was so unexpected, and therefore hilarious. Really emphasizes the difference between the women in The Sopranos and The Godfather, doesn't it? The 1950s mob families in the 1970s movie were very traditional and patriarchal, and a mob princess would cry and phone her brother to help her with her abusive husband, then later be angry when her husband gets murdered by another one of her brothers. Janice Soprano, on the other hand... It made me realize that she is a great character, almost as much as Livia, even though (or because) they are both so unlikable. That's one of the things I really love about the show, there are so many great female characters who are mostly complex and strong in their different ways (even if most of them have an unhealthy attraction to gangsters - unless they're gangsters themselves, like Sonia Milos' character in season 2 episode "Commendatori").
That's exactly why The Sopranos is such a great show. It's constantly taking you out of your comfort zone. At first you see this man who is sympathetic despite what he is, who can be charming, likable, reasonable, who has good qualities, wants to be a good family man, loves his kids, has some moral principles of his own, a man whose issues you can understand and perhaps relate to. Most other mobsters and people related to/involved with them in any way in the show are also portrayed as complex people (though some of them are much less sympathetic than Tony, while others are more so) and the 'shades of gray' approach is also employed with people from the more 'proper' side of the society, many of whom are far from angels. But after the viewer gets attached to Tony as a "mobster with a heart of gold" (oh look, he is a criminal, but he's not that bad), the show will always, from time to time, hit them with the reality of the horrible things that Tony does, as if saying "You still sure that he's not 'that bad'?"
Warning: vague spoilers ahead (IMO not so outright that I would use spoiler tags)
--------------------------------------
You get to see the dark side of Tony more and more throughout the later seasons, though they never go as far as to make him thoroughly unsympathetic, and you always get to see an exploration of his psychology, his issues and background (though later on, it's more often through dream scenes and such rather than the sessions with Melfi). The other thing that keeps Tony from becoming the "bad guy" is that he is usually pitted against an opponent who is far worse than he is, which emphasizes some of the Tony's positive traits and the lines he wouldn't cross - you just have to find yourself thinking, he may be bad, but he's not that bad as this character. In season 1, this role is played by Livia, in season 2 it's Richie, in the next seasons... well, you'll see. But even so, the later seasons see Tony crossing some lines where you really have to question your attitude to him.
Tony's marriage with Carmela also gets really dissected for all its inherent problems - there is a great episode in one of the later seasons where all the issues and the resentment on both sides comes to the fore. I never thought that their marriage was healthy by any means so I was delighted when the show dealt with it increasingly throughout the first few seasons. The fact that Tony is a big hypocrite, just like all of the mafia guys, because the "understanding" they share about his infidelities does not extend to Carmela even trying to do something similar, is not lost on the show... and some of his extramarital relationships are treated more seriously and play in a bigger role than has so far been the case with anything but his crush on Melfi (in season 3 and 4 in particular), and you get a diagnosis about what it is that actually draws him to certain types of women.
---------------------------
The show also deals with masculinity in the 20/21st century, deconstructing the "tough guy" stereotype big time, showing the issues, insecurities and psychological problems of tough guys (which provides many moments that are either hilarious or very moving), while also emphasizing (maybe even too much occasionally...) the attraction and fascination that a lot of people feel for "tough guys", "Alpha males" and "bad boys".
I only partially agree with this. It's true that Melfi's role diminishes in later seasons, but IMO she is an indispensable element of the show - not because she is Tony's psychiatrist, but because she is the show's only moral anchor among the regulars - one of the few people who don't allow themselves to be sucked into and corrupted by Tony's world (every other such character, and there were very few of them, was a one-time guest star). She represents the ambiguous attitude towards Tony - despite her sympathy, understanding and attraction for him, she is holding onto her moral principles. After season 1, most interesting Melfi moments are those outside the sessions, when she's trying to resolve that ambiguity; the best of those is the great episode in season 3 that you mention, but she also has a brilliant scene in one of the later seasons - . True enough, her role is further diminished and she didn't have a lot to do, until the final resolution of her arc (which arguably may have mirrored a show's attitude to Tony in the last season).
I must admit I gasped, then laughed out loud.
That was so unexpected, and therefore hilarious. Really emphasizes the difference between the women in The Sopranos and The Godfather, doesn't it? The 1950s mob families in the 1970s movie were very traditional and patriarchal, and a mob princess would cry and phone her brother to help her with her abusive husband, then later be angry when her husband gets murdered by another one of her brothers. Janice Soprano, on the other hand... It made me realize that she is a great character, almost as much as Livia, even though (or because) they are both so unlikable. That's one of the things I really love about the show, there are so many great female characters who are mostly complex and strong in their different ways (even if most of them have an unhealthy attraction to gangsters - unless they're gangsters themselves, like Sonia Milos' character in season 2 episode "Commendatori").
Great show,
Yep. and I say that as someone who generally despises the gangster/mafia genre.
I love this show. Definitely in my top 10 TV series of all time, maybe the top 5.
Some people can't sympathize with the characters because they are criminals but I have no problem with it.
Some people can't sympathize with the characters because they are criminals but I have no problem with it.
Same here,
I think Steven Van Zant's ( from the E-Street Band) Silvio was a great character.
One of the things that helps me connect with a series is the theme song and opening-credits visusals. (Well, those that have them anymore these days) As I think the opening credits need to 'sell the tone' of the series. This may or may not have anything to do with my feelings on "Enterprise."
Anyway, the opening credits and theme song of this series is great and fits the series' tone quite nicely.
Anyway, the opening credits and theme song of this series is great and fits the series' tone quite nicely.
Actually, I found the music and dream sequences to be one of the more incredible (positive) parts of the show, which in and of itself was pretty top-notch.
Definitely good stuff. I hope Game of Thrones is this good.
Cheers,
-CM-
Definitely good stuff. I hope Game of Thrones is this good.
Cheers,
-CM-
God, that scene where Tony last talks to his mom is shitty! I mean he's so obviously talk to a CGI recreation with previous dialogue dubbed in. To give the character a final "moment" after the actress dies. Ugh.
lol. I'll have to go back and watch that again sometime. I'd blocked it from my memory.
lol. I'll have to go back and watch that again sometime. I'd blocked it from my memory.
There's a video link to it here.
It was one of those unfortunate things where they felt they had to do something. The plan was that Livia would take a back-seat role in season 2 and return to make Tony's life miserable in season 3, and they were planning a story-arc involving her testifying against him in the plane ticket case. But Nancy Marchand died and they had to drop that story, but they had already set it up in the season 2 finale and felt that not addressing it at all would be wrong. So they created a CGI double and formed a conversation that doesn't even make sense. Perhaps they would have been better off just dropping it entirely.
Anyway, the story they did come up with for season 3 was very good, so you wont miss Livia too much.
Anyway, the story they did come up with for season 3 was very good, so you wont miss Livia too much.
Yeah, you're right, I guess she was still important in that respect. But her original role on the show wasn't such a big deal any more as Tony started figuring things out for himself, and often the show was best by showing Tony figuring things out (such as in dream sequences) rather than the scenes where he explains it all to the audience through her. There's still some great scenes between them, but often in the later seasons I'd watch Tony in her office and feel that this aspect of the show was played out.
Considering after that pointless scene she dies off-screen anyway it does seem like it was fairly pointless.
At the time, though, that scene was very impressive in that they were even able to do that. Now it looks stupid but at the time there was a lot of buzz about it.
As long as she's wearing a skirt and showing off her legs she can stick around as long as she wants.
Wait until season 5*. Seriously.
As long as she's wearing a skirt and showing off her legs she can stick around as long as she wants.
* I think it's in season 5....
Yes, it was a huge tragedy in season 5 when Paulie kidnapped her and cut off her legs, and it was even worse when Tony got his revenge by shaving off Paulie's wings. I still don't understand how Melfi's legs grew back within a month, but Paulie's hair was gone forever. 
It wasn't entirely pointless because they at least addressed the problem and explained how it went away. Otherwise it might have felt like a loose plot-thread that was never resolved, rather than a victim of circumstance.
Yes, it was a huge tragedy in season 5 when Paulie kidnapped her and cut off her legs, and it was even worse when Tony got his revenge by shaving off Paulie's wings. I still don't understand how Melfi's legs grew back within a month, but Paulie's hair was gone forever.
It wasn't entirely pointless because they at least addressed the problem and explained how it went away. Otherwise it might have felt like a loose plot-thread that was never resolved, rather than a victim of circumstance.
It seems odd to me that she'd be used as a witness against him anyway. She wasn't, apparently, in the best of health (and even if she was faking it the descrpancy could be exploited by Tony's lawyer to suggest her testimony couldn't be trusted) and a relative can't be made to testify against another relative either unless they volunteer to do so on their own.
So I'm not sure what the Feds were going for. Eitherway, I'm sure they could've easily wrapped up the stolen ticket plot without bringing Livia back from the dead with poor, even for 2001/2002, CGI.
Finished Season 3/Disc 1 (Episode 4) tonight (Dr. Melfi's rape.) Very good episode, so far S3 is shaping up much better than S2 was at this point.
^ That scene (Melfi's rape) is still intense after repeated viewings, I find.
(To clarify: I find it painful/shocking/disturbing to watch, each time I do a Sopranos marathon. Which is the aim of the scene, obviously... Not that I'm one of those individuals to re-watch it (the rape scene) over and over. Although I'm sure there are people out there that would... *yikes*)
Cheers,
-CM-
(To clarify: I find it painful/shocking/disturbing to watch, each time I do a Sopranos marathon. Which is the aim of the scene, obviously... Not that I'm one of those individuals to re-watch it (the rape scene) over and over. Although I'm sure there are people out there that would... *yikes*)
Cheers,
-CM-
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