There is also "Strata", which is a sort of precursor to Terry Pratchett's Discworld books crossed with Larry Niven's "Ringworld". Hogswatch is also celebrated in "The Dark Side of the Sun" but the Discworld does not feature.
Discworld
- Thread starter JeffinOakland
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Pratchett was one of those very rare author's who's work got *better* as he went along, which to my mind in damn near unheard of when it comes to Fantasy novels. My experiance is that the first one or two are pretty good, but the next twelve get progressibly worse. (the 'Wheel of Time' books leap to mind.)
The downside to this is that going back, some of the earlier stuff feels less and less refined. 'Guards! Guards!' is i think by far the weaker of the City Watch books and as with CoM exists as an embryonic form of what the Watch books would later become.
Indeed, the book is mostly a subversive pastiche/parody on the "gallant chosen one saves the city from the evil dragon" cliche and focusing not on the "hero", but on what in any other version would be faceless background filler that the "handsome king to be" charges past on his mighty stead without so much as a second look: the inept, and feckless City Watchmen.
Of course that gag only works once, so later books became more about the growing pains of multiculturalism in a cosmopolitan society as the watch expanded to include examples of the Disc's various races. Aside from things you'd expect in that set-up like prejudiced, race relations and dealing with the historical baggage thereof; it even got into gender identity, religious conservatism, tokenism, jingoisum, the nature of the soul and the role lightning-proof atheists play in a world with actual tangible gods.
In short; 'Guards! Guards!' is OK, but 'Men at Arms' is when it starts to get good. If you only read one Watch book though, I'd highly recommend 'Night Watch'. By far my personal favourite. Must have read it half a dozen times.
The downside to this is that going back, some of the earlier stuff feels less and less refined. 'Guards! Guards!' is i think by far the weaker of the City Watch books and as with CoM exists as an embryonic form of what the Watch books would later become.
Indeed, the book is mostly a subversive pastiche/parody on the "gallant chosen one saves the city from the evil dragon" cliche and focusing not on the "hero", but on what in any other version would be faceless background filler that the "handsome king to be" charges past on his mighty stead without so much as a second look: the inept, and feckless City Watchmen.
Of course that gag only works once, so later books became more about the growing pains of multiculturalism in a cosmopolitan society as the watch expanded to include examples of the Disc's various races. Aside from things you'd expect in that set-up like prejudiced, race relations and dealing with the historical baggage thereof; it even got into gender identity, religious conservatism, tokenism, jingoisum, the nature of the soul and the role lightning-proof atheists play in a world with actual tangible gods.
In short; 'Guards! Guards!' is OK, but 'Men at Arms' is when it starts to get good. If you only read one Watch book though, I'd highly recommend 'Night Watch'. By far my personal favourite. Must have read it half a dozen times.
I've read 3 so far and I intend to keep reading them. They're fun, light easy reading for breaks at work or other downtime.
They're rougher novels, but not exactly weaker. They're good for what they're trying to be, but they're very different from what the series becomes. As The Lensman said, the first few novels are like the fantasy version of Hitchhikers Guide, but the later novels are sort of like the fantasy version of Star Trek (except funnier). Discworld evolved into a venue for Terry to comment on issues facing us in the real world, and to present a humanist message to the audience. There's lots of speechifying and moralising and pontification on human nature. And like Star Trek, it can be formulaic at times.
Reading Discworld as a teenager genuinely shaped the way in which I interpret the world. It's like Terry left a prism in my mind that distorts my thinking to be more like his. I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.
I felt the same way once. My first exposure to Discworld was the point-and-click adventure games which featured Rincewind and the Luggage, and when I realised that there were novels I sought them out at my local library. The first one I found was The Light Fantastic, which confused the hell out of me for the first 20 pages as I had no understanding of the events of The Colour of Magic, but once I figured out what was going on I came to enjoy the novel. Then I started Equal Rites, expecting Rincewind to star in it, and I was very disappointed when I realised that he wasn't going to. It just didn't feel like Discworld without him.
But then I read Mort, and I loved it, and I stopped associating the series with Rincewind. I still have an emotional attachment to his character and feel a little sad that Terry stopped writing stories for him later in the series, but I guess that would have given him less time to write for more interesting characters such as Vimes, Granny, Tiffany, and Moist.
You think they're fun and light now, but eventually you'll learn how they rise up.
I don't agree when people comment that the first three Discworld stories are the weakest. The first two are important in laying the developmental groundwork of what was to follow and I think were important in bridging the gap between the traditional sword and sorcery books and what Pratchett was building. Equal Rites only stands out, I think, because Granny Weatherwax later developed in a different way to how she appeared in that book.
I loved 'Guards! Guards!'
Well, yeah, that's kind of the point. If the subsequent books hadn't built on what came before, then they wouldn't have been an improvement on them.
Saying the first few books are the weakest isn't an objective denigration, it's praise that the author took what worked and elaborated on it, dropped what didn't and tried out some new directions along the way. The first three books are still *good* books in their own right, but when taken in the context of the 40-odd books that make up the Discworld canon, then yes, they are relatively weak entries. And that's OK.
Probably the worst thing that can happen to a story is that the first draft is as good as it ever gets and all subsequent drafts, edits, rewrites and additions only serve to degrade the quality. Indeed this is where a lot of bad creative endeavours go wrong. A truly excellent story usually starts with a *good* first draft and then gets made *better*. The latter is what happened with DIscworld.
The weakness of the earlier books is very much a retroactive thing. Only really noticeable after reading a good portion of the later material and going back. At the time they were fine. Very good even. But in the context of what came later, not so much. It's like the literary equivalent of finding an old photograph of yourself and thinking "bloody hell, would you look that that stupid haircut!"
Indeed, Terry Pratchett himself was embarrassed by the first few novels and advised new readers not to start there. I've encountered dozens of tales from fans who attempted to start with TCOM but were put off by it, and then got into the series years later when they read one of the later novels. I imagine it frustrated Terry to think of all the people who read the first one, assumed all the novels were like that, and wrote off the whole series.
I've read the 1st 4 now. He has a great imagination and is a natural writer. The plots of the 1st 3 are all over the place. Mort was the 1st that actually read well in a beginning/middle/end sort of way. Mort is an exponentially better book than the 1st 3 if only as a coherently written novel.
Funny, I always warmed to Death.
It's only really when going after Rincewind in the first two that he's nasty, I suppose, and even then there's the "I'm at a party" Red Death summoning in Light Fantastic (ISTR). But once Mort's put him centre stage his complexity is always there as subtext, even in the tiniest appearance.
I just finished the 6th. I'd grade them this way:
1. Color of Magic: Brilliantly imaginative and very clever. No real plot and sometimes hard to follow. Rincewind is more of a cypher to tell a story through than a believable, interesting character. He's a "starter" character. B
2. Light Fantastic: More running around. Part 2 of Color of Magic. Not very memorable. C+
3. Equal Rites: Reads like a young adult novel. Some say it is. A bit dull in parts. Pratchett's 1st "message" book. B-
4. Mort: Pratchett's 1st really good book. Death is easily his best character (so far). Very funny and pointed. A
5. Sourcery: A step back from the progress made in Mort. Some funny bits but very hectic with not particulary interesting characters. B-
6. Wyrd Sisters: Pratchett's starting to find his storytelling groove. Good characters clearly delineated. Well written. Equal balance of fun and serious. Good storytelling. A-
1. Color of Magic: Brilliantly imaginative and very clever. No real plot and sometimes hard to follow. Rincewind is more of a cypher to tell a story through than a believable, interesting character. He's a "starter" character. B
2. Light Fantastic: More running around. Part 2 of Color of Magic. Not very memorable. C+
3. Equal Rites: Reads like a young adult novel. Some say it is. A bit dull in parts. Pratchett's 1st "message" book. B-
4. Mort: Pratchett's 1st really good book. Death is easily his best character (so far). Very funny and pointed. A
5. Sourcery: A step back from the progress made in Mort. Some funny bits but very hectic with not particulary interesting characters. B-
6. Wyrd Sisters: Pratchett's starting to find his storytelling groove. Good characters clearly delineated. Well written. Equal balance of fun and serious. Good storytelling. A-
I love Discworld, I got into it around 2 years ago, i was non-stop laughing reading Colour of Magic. I got the strangest looks on the subway...
Light Fantastic is basically Part II; after that Rincewind becomes kind of tiring. I think my all time favorite is Night Watch, just 'cause it's so good, but after that some of the books just dont appeal so much.
Light Fantastic is basically Part II; after that Rincewind becomes kind of tiring. I think my all time favorite is Night Watch, just 'cause it's so good, but after that some of the books just dont appeal so much.
Mort is my favourite of those early novels, that's the point where I fell in love with the series. It's also the point where Terry fell in love with the series too, as that's the one he says taught him "the joy of plot". Before that, he had planned to stop Discworld and return to sci-fi (He had written a short story about parallel Earths after TCOM and wanted to turn it into a series, something he didn't get around to until he and Stephen Baxter started on The Long Earth in 2010.) but Neil Gaiman encouraged him to write a story about Death. Thank you, Neil.
Sourcery is an odd one. I count it as my favourite Rincewind novel as it's the one where he's at his most human. But my understanding is that Terry didn't particularly want to write about Rincewind again, yet he was compelled to due to all the fan mail requesting another Rincewind story. That's why the novel ends the way that it does, with the character kind of written off. But that seems to have backfired as fans started writing to Terry to ask him to resolve the cliffhanger.
Sourcery is an odd one. I count it as my favourite Rincewind novel as it's the one where he's at his most human. But my understanding is that Terry didn't particularly want to write about Rincewind again, yet he was compelled to due to all the fan mail requesting another Rincewind story. That's why the novel ends the way that it does, with the character kind of written off. But that seems to have backfired as fans started writing to Terry to ask him to resolve the cliffhanger.
I think some at the end are terrible:
Monstrous Regiment (painfully boring)
Thud
Unseen Academicals
Making Money (a HUGE step back from Going Postal, which is a scream. Also I was annoyed that the wonderful character of Adora Belle Dearheart was reduced to a mere appendage to Moist).
Those 4 are just not funny to me. I know towards the end, of course, Alzheimer's must have been having its way.
Monstrous Regiment (painfully boring)
Thud
Unseen Academicals
Making Money (a HUGE step back from Going Postal, which is a scream. Also I was annoyed that the wonderful character of Adora Belle Dearheart was reduced to a mere appendage to Moist).
Those 4 are just not funny to me. I know towards the end, of course, Alzheimer's must have been having its way.
Which was Thud!, Koom Valley? It was funny but yeah, a bit tiresome. It kinda ruined the hilarity of the Famous Koom Valley trope tossed out early on. Unseen Academicals was a yawn, the one with the goblins in the country was also a yawn.
Sounds like the Discworld books are like most series in that there's a bit of a bell curve in quality.
It's not an issue of quality so much as taste. The books are all different and each tell their own story, some of which may not be to an individual's personal taste.
Myself, I really enjoyed 'Thud!', 'Snuff' & 'Monsterous Regiment'. Indeed out of 40 books I can probably count on one hand all of the ones I didn't enjoy.
Myself, I really enjoyed 'Thud!', 'Snuff' & 'Monsterous Regiment'. Indeed out of 40 books I can probably count on one hand all of the ones I didn't enjoy.
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