Discovery Size Argument™ thread

[DaveyNY]

Official Disco size charts from the forthcoming Star Trek Shipyards books

Odd they've got the classic TV series and movie Enterprises among the Disco ships, when they clearly don't exist in the same version of the world.

OH MY GOODNESS !!!!
GOTTA HAVE UM !!!
(already pre-ordered on Amazon)

... and I reiterate...
"ENTERPRISE" mucked things up with it's 'Temporal Cold War' ...

"DISCOVERY" is just slightly 'off-center' of The Original Series, which more than cover's the visual changes, slightly cover's any Event differences and can also explain why the U.S.S. Kelvin was so so big.

It's all good and one doesn't have to do any extreme mental gymnastics to fit it all in.

Hopefully They will toss in a throw-away-line in Season-2 that mentions the possibility of this.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

They should just scale up the TOS ships to match Disco and call it a day. There's never been any on screen confirmation of their dimensions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's called a retcon.

Maybe you've heard of them?

You can decide not to like it, but you'll have to live with it. It's here to stay for now.

I'm not talking about the design, I'm talking about the book depicting the Disco ships alongside the classic Enterprises as if they're all one big happy fleet when they reimagined and upscaled the Enterprise specifically to be a better fit with their version of the Prime Universe. The Discovery and her sisters don't belong on a chart alongside the classic Enterprise, they belong on a chart with the Discoprise, the version of the ship that exists in it's universe.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm assuming the book was finalized before eaglemoss got the DSC Enterprise.

The Franklin is missing as well, weird considering it is also Prime.

 

[ITDUDE]

Those Discovery models together with the traditional designs... Looks like someone trying to push a square pig through a round hole.

It's so obvious they planned to complete reboot the Trek franchise, again, and then halfway through got the jitters and scrapped that plan. And now they are stuck trying to make sense of their rebooted and the original versions and how in the world they could at least superficially pretend to be part of the same universe.

Well, I guess that's why Kelvin ships are not here. It would be sooo much better if we had 3 district universes (Prime, Kelvin and Discoverse, see I am not even calling it STDverse ) It would explain everything. And would be much better than to try to retcon everything into place.

 

[Tuskin38]

They did reboot it, visually, but not the universe itself.

 

[ITDUDE]

OH MY GOODNESS !!!!
GOTTA HAVE UM !!!
(already pre-ordered on Amazon)

... and I reiterate...
"ENTERPRISE" mucked things up with it's 'Temporal Cold War' ...

"DISCOVERY" is just slightly 'off-center' of The Original Series, which more than cover's the visual changes, slightly cover's any Event differences and can also explain why the U.S.S. Kelvin was so so big.

It's all good and one doesn't have to do any extreme mental gymnastics to fit it all in.

Hopefully They will toss in a throw-away-line in Season-2 that mentions the possibility of this.

I'll give good money vibes to someone to draw a visual diagram of all the universes, including First Contact/ENT (borg related) changes to timelines as well as Temporal Cold war.

 

[dahj]

I'll give good money vibes to someone to draw a visual diagram of all the universes, including First Contact/ENT (borg related) changes to timelines as well as Temporal Cold war.

 

[ITDUDE]

They did reboot it, visually, but not the universe itself.

Why can't we have both? And why is it a problem if we DO have both? If STD is a complete reboot (or let's say slightly off-center reboot) everything fits perfectly.

 

[Kemaiku]

But the entire point is, it isn't.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'll give good money vibes to someone to draw a visual diagram of all the universes, including First Contact/ENT (borg related) changes to timelines as well as Temporal Cold war.

I gave this a try a few years ago. I started with Voyager.

...and ended with Voyager, since it's impossible to draw a coherent timeline from the beginning of that show to the end.

 

[Kemaiku]

I gave this a try a few years ago. I started with Voyager.

...and ended with Voyager, since it's impossible to draw a coherent timeline from the beginning of that show to the end.

Why do you think Q was hanging around so much?

 

[ITDUDE]

I gave this a try a few years ago. I started with Voyager.

...and ended with Voyager, since it's impossible to draw a coherent timeline from the beginning of that show to the end.

Let me try this. It's probably hopeless, but here is my take after about 5 minutes at a white board.
So we have Prime as we know from TOS era straight to TNG and First Contact (includes VOY and DS9 too I guess). First Contact goes back in time and creates Enterprise Timeline (ENT). At end of FC, Enterprise-E goes back to original Prime timeline (think how biff tannen was able to come back to original 2015 after he dropped off the sports almanac). Last couple TNG movies continue in un-altered Prime universe (a dead end universe, since it's now closed off to everyone. This is why the rest of TNG movies sucked )
Enterprise timeline features the Borg left over from FC, temporal cold war (that did not exist in Prime) and eventually leads to Romulus explosion that in turn creates Kelvin timeline. (so according to this, Romulus is still around in Prime). So in this scenario, Kelvin is forked from Enterprise universe, not Prime. This would explain why pre-split USS Kelvin already looks different than anything in Prime.
And now we have STDverse (or Discoverse) which was created sometime before TOS (but probably after events of ENT) due to not yet explained event. It could have forked from Prime OR from ENT, not clear at this point. It probably did not get forked from Kelvin universe since the Discoprise we saw at end of Season 1 is completely different from jjPrise.

Make sense? I am most definitely missing a lot of details.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Let me try this. It's probably hopeless, but here is my take after about 5 minutes at a white board.
So we have Prime as we know from TOS era straight to TNG and First Contact (includes VOY and DS9 too I guess). First Contact goes back in time and creates Enterprise Timeline (ENT). At end of FC, Enterprise-E goes back to original Prime timeline (think how biff tannen was able to come back to original 2015 after he dropped off the sports almanac). Last couple TNG movies continue in un-altered Prime universe (a dead end universe, since it's now closed off to everyone. This is why the rest of TNG movies sucked )
Enterprise timeline features the Borg left over from FC, temporal cold war (that did not exist in Prime) and eventually leads to Romulus explosion that in turn creates Kelvin timeline. (so according to this, Romulus is still around in Prime). So in this scenario, Kelvin is forked from Enterprise universe, not Prime. This would explain why pre-split USS Kelvin already looks different than anything in Prime.
And now we have STDverse (or Discoverse) which was created sometime before TOS (but probably after events of ENT) due to not yet explained event. It could have forked from Prime OR from ENT, not clear at this point.
Make sense? I am most definitely missing a lot of details.

It's way, way more complicated than that.

Just ENT...

-The branch where future people interfering in "Cold Front" came from. In the original timeline, Enterprise was destroyed in a freak accident.

- The "Shockwave" timeline where Archer's disappearance in 2151 leads to a ruined 31st century Earth.

-The pre-Xindi attack timeline (likely same as below)

-The "Azati Prime" future where the Delphic Expanse is never destroyed, grows to fill the quadrant and a big war happens with the Enterprise-J and the Sphere Builders

-The "Storm Front" time war fucked up universe, with alien Nazis in the White House. Ends in a huge reset undoing... possibly some of the above stuff as well? Who knows.

And this is pretty straightforward compared to Voyager.

 

[ITDUDE]

It's way, way more complicated than that.

Just ENT...

-The branch where future people interfering in "Cold Front" came from. In the original timeline, Enterprise was destroyed in a freak accident.

- The "Shockwave" timeline where Archer's disappearance in 2151 leads to a ruined 31st century Earth.

-The pre-Xindi attack timeline (likely same as below)

-The "Azati Prime" future where the Delphic Expanse is never destroyed, grows to fill the quadrant and a big war happens with the Enterprise-J and the Sphere Builders

-The "Storm Front" time war fucked up universe, with alien Nazis in the White House. Ends in a huge reset undoing... possibly some of the above stuff as well? Who knows.

And this is pretty straightforward compared to Voyager.

Well, I figure all of that stuff happens in the Enterprise Universe, which is completely different from Prime. Does it make it easier to explain?
And I am not touching VOY with a 10 foot pole

 

[Kemaiku]

Most of those realities collapsed leaving the prime thead as it was.

 

[fireproof78]

Most of those realities collapsed leaving the prime thead as it was.

Plus there are time ships patrolling and observing time lines as well.

 

[Kemaiku]

Plus there are time ships patrolling and observing time lines as well.

Well there you go, they're stitching it all back together anyway, Discovery is prime, just someone elses needlework.

 

[ITDUDE]

Plus there are time ships patrolling and observing time lines as well.

That feels like a cop out. What, the total Star Trek fandom cannot figure out how make everything fit with 50+ years of history, bunch of movies and bunch of shows? I call upon to all Trekkies everywhere to put on their thinking caps and solve this simple mystery once and for all!

 

[fireproof78]

That feels like a cop out. What, the total Star Trek fandom cannot figure out how make everything fit with 50+ years of history, bunch of movies and bunch of shows? I call upon to all Trekkies everywhere to put on their thinking caps and solve this simple mystery once and for all!

I didn't write it.

Also, I have to ask "Is it worth it?" Will people like Discovery more if this is solved? I mean, Kelvin Star Trek still gets derided for destroying TOS and the Prime Universe because of time travel shenanigans. Hatred for Discovery will continue until the next property to be hated.