Discovery prequel novel: Desperate Hours

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by WebLurker, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    I just think it's a deliberate shoutout since it's part of the Franklin's new aesthetic when she's given the new NX-326 gear. It would be a nice touch to have the MACO star be a thing across a smaller portion of the fleet for the first decade or two after the Federation.

    The delta may have been widespread, but like TOS etc, whatever was inside it denoted certain aspects of that ship or station. Andorians, Tellerites and Vulcans could have had short lived variations meaningful to them.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's certainly one attractive way for Early Starfleet to play out. Personally, I'd prefer something like that over the introduction of the odd TOS badges a century before TOS, so that we could establish the TOS variants as short-lived aberrations - and thus squeeze plenty more of such aberrations into the timeline if need be...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  3. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    Actually, there's a degree of inconsistency vis a vis the four or five point star for the MACOs. The rank and qualification tab use the five-pointed "Command Star", whereas the MACO Assignment Patch and the UE Starfleet "Semper Exploro" flag use the four-pointed variation. Given the weight of history I would agree that the four-point variant is probably MACO.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    David Mack has also been working closely with Kirsten Beyer, a member of the Discovery writing staff and a Trek novelist, to keep the book consistent with the show. It sounds like there's been quite a bit of back and forth, so the book should be consistent with the show. I believe they did this specifically to keep the kind of inconsistencies that popped up in a lot of the early books from the other series from happening in Desperate Hours.
     
  5. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, of course; Scotty discussed that in the movie. I guess it doesn't really matter that much whether the Franklin was a former MACO ship or a Starfleet ship from the beginning, either would work. As I recall, though, ENT indicated that the MACOs had not actually had off-world experience. If I got that right, it might shift things more in favor of a non-MACO ship.

    That was pretty lucky.

    It also fits pretty well with the ENT era of the prime universe as well (I find it ironic that Simon Pegg was advocating for the whole "Kelvin timeline" overwrote the entire franchise when his movie never really needed it and actually makes more sense -- IMHO -- under the classic understanding of how the Kelvin timeline was supposed to operate). I really liked that, given that I like the ENT era and found it made the movie more enjoyable; it made the movie feel more like a parallel universe story rather than a remake and we got to learn new things about the prime universe (esp. a timeframe where not a lot was known).

    I'm kinda hoping we get something similar with the Discovery TV show (comparing how the Franklin and its backstory fit with ENT); even if not everything is 100% franchise accurate, that in general things fit together.
     
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  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Reed said that the MACOs' combat experience was limited to simulations on Earth, but he was referring specifically to their expertise with person-to-person combat. That doesn't rule out the Franklin being used for simulated space combat, actual rescue operations, surveillance/intelligence missions, or the like. (I'm thinking by analogy with the US military's attempts to develop their own space shuttle to use for spy missions and so on.)

    Besides, Trek is full of retcons that require glossing over the exact words spoken in an earlier production. So it's important to be flexible about such things.


    As I've pointed out before, it didn't come from Pegg originally. It came from the Okudas' revised Encyclopedia, and Pegg must've just gotten an advance look at it and mentioned the idea a couple of months before the book came out but well after it must've been written, creating the illusion that he originated the idea.


    That's definitely the goal.
     
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  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Huh, I never put those two together before.
     
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  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always loved the inconsistencies. You could see how the show changed as it was developed. Always loved the early-TNG books.

    But, we live in the OCD-era now...
     
  9. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    The fan term YATI (IE "Yet Another trek Inconsistency" ) has been in use by Star Trek fandom since it started. Trek fandom is no more OCD today than it for 50 years ago. ;)
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I have books about inconsistencies, from and various production team notes. That level of detail has been there fairly early on, at least from my reading. There is just more forums and platforms to share the findings rather than local groups.
     
  11. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay.


    Must've misread his blog. At any rate, I liked how Beyond used the parallel universe trope a lot better than its predecessors, and that's probably the more important thing; how does the movie work, not the behind-the-scenes assumptions.

    Suppose, although different people have different ideas of what's a bridge too far.

    Me personally, I don't mind when the books go off in their own directions, given that they're not meant to be canon. However, I find that huge discrepancies in the TV shows and movies, which are supposed to fit together, make the illusion that its all one world harder to maintain, if that makes any sense.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Moreover, Reed no doubt was speaking of the MACO relevant to him - the detachment assigned to Enterprise.

    These people were not veterans of space fighting, or at least these people never demonstrated or mentioned such a past. This does not mean Military Assault Command would never have sent troops to battle at distant star systems. It just means the specific strike force sent against the Xindi was selected on some other basis than them being combat veterans.

    Reed already had a generic force of shipboard infantry, his Starfleet gunmen with their advanced phase rifles. The specific individuals there might not have been Starfleet's cream of the cream when the ship first launched for her supposed milk run in "Broken Bow", but surely Starfleet could have rotated any slackers out and its top security men in come "The Expanse". The MACO force clearly added something else altogether to the capabilities of the ship. Perhaps they were highly trained in dealing with aliens, and that training took all their time and never allowed them to bloody themselves in actual fighting against human rebels and other traditional MACO adversaries?

    All said, we still have zero indication that Military Assault Command (or any other Command in the Military) would ever have operated starships of their own. And heck, if they once flew the superfast Franklin, then what did they need the NX-01 for? If the Military really competes with Starfleet on warp speed, then surely it wouldn't want to cede victory to its most hated enemy on this occasion, either! Just send a purebred MACO ship, even if she can only do warp 4.8 rather than 5.1, and let the stupid Starfleet also send a ship if they really insist.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If we can assume that Franklin was the Warp 4 ship like Enterprise was the warp 5 ship, it is probably that Franklin either hadn't hit warp 4 yet, or could only do it briefly, much like Enterprise couldn't really do Warp 5 for very long until they did a lot of tweaking to her engines after the whole Xindi incident. Given what we know of Earth's warp evolution, Franklin can't be all that much older than Enterprise. No more than six years older, and more likely only a few years. Her engine is likely of a competing design to the Archer warp drive. We can't be sure if their are more ships like Franklin around by the time of the Xindi Incident, only that Enterprise is probably the only Warp 5 ship in the fleet (unless one thinks that Intrepid also has a Warp 5 drive) and whatever Warp 4 ships are off someplace else. Franklin might not have been able to get back to Earth or be sent on an interception course with Enterprise on her way to the Expanse. With whatever troops she might have on her depending on if they were MACO ships, or just high speed cargo haulers to get priority cargo from one Earth world to the next faster than the old Warp 2 freighters could go.
     
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  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I guess all this is possible. It's a delicate balance between the Franklin being unique or at least rare, and the Franklin actually surviving all through ENT and the Romulan War - would a uniquely capable asset be left out of the war, especially when it seems in ENT that Earth has nothing much better to offer in terms of firepower or speed, and certainly not in great numbers? Was the Franklin actually uniquely incapable when the war came, and only later acquired the systems and capabilities that in ST:B make her so eminently useful for Earth in interstellar war?

    Nothing onscreen forces us to believe that the Military would have operated starships. Nothing ITRW much supports the notion that the "Military", rather than the "Navy", should be the one to operate the ships that allow the former to fight "overseas". At best, we see some MACO demonstrate proficiency in operating the systems of Archer's ship - but this definitely need not stem from them being old space dogs all.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Considering that the Romulan War hadn't happened yet when the Xindi problem was happening (nor in any of ENT really) it is hard to gauge if the Franklin was used or not, because we can't really say for sure what was using in the Romulan War. The NX-class seems to be the best Starfleet has in early 2155, just a year or so before the war starts. The Franklin doesn't seem to be much less capable, combat wise, than Enterprise....just slower. She might have less phase cannons, but the tech behind them is probably the same. Perhaps having the more advanced phase pulse cannons that Columbia was to be fitted with. Her tubes might not be wide enough for the photonic torpedoes provided late to Enterprise, leaving Franklin with spatial torpedoes. Franklin is much smaller than Enterprise, but designed for a different purpose.
     
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  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    As someone who's old enough to have discovered TOS and TAS before any of the later revivals and spinoffs came along, I can attest that there have been numerous huge discrepancies between older and newer versions of the franchise, and there have always been fans who considered the discrepancies in the newest version to be too huge to reconcile, but over time, fandom as a whole has found ways to reconcile them and readjust its perception of the Trek universe to include them.

    If anything, the new interpretations often replace the original ones in fandom's collective mind. There have been so many times that I've seen people using "away team" instead of "landing party" when talking about TOS, or assuming that TNG's rigid interpretation of the Prime Directive or TNG-era Roddenberry's "no personal conflict" rule applied retroactively to TOS as well. Not to mention all the people for whom the movies' portrayal of Kirk as a renegade overwrites TOS's portrayal of him as a disciplined soldier who strove to uphold the rules. The new has a way of replacing the old. If Discovery is successful, then fandom a generation from now may see TOS's version of the 23rd century as just a quaint rough draft.
     
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  17. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wouldn't the most experienced MACO squads be sent on the Xindi mission, though? Why send the rookies on when there was so much at stake?
     
  18. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Well during the Xindi crisis, Starfleet was pulling it's ships closer to Earth (the fleet that finally manages to close on the weapon when it emerges), so the Franklin could have been given to MACO to patrol against Klingon or Xindi agression in the solar system or there and Vulcan.

    The Romulan War novels have SF dragging anything with warp drive (and bolting it on anything that doesn't later) into the war, including all the Daedalus class ships that share the same weapons as the Franklin, and can only manage warp 2-3. Having something closer to the NX class moving at warp 4, she would definitely have been on assignment somewhere. Maybe only protecting convoys.
     
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  19. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So i guess David Mack posted on his twitter that if Desperate Hours is leaked early that people should be warned that it contains spoilers for the two part season premiere.
     
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  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The combat veterans might have been the least experienced of the MACO folks - while they were doing irrelevant things such as shooting people dead, others gained relevant experience on things such as how to infiltrate an alien starship or drop a scaly, bug-eyed monster with an IQ of 210, skills the veterans lacked because they weren't taught back in their day.

    Okay, so Earth in Archer's time has little in the way of wars, supposedly, so one has to go off-Sol to become a practicing (rather than just card-carrying) killer. And being a veteran of shooting to kill might galvanize you for a mission. But supposedly these people are sufficiently tough and disciplined to start with.

    Would being a veteran of being deployed outside Sol be beneficial for the mission in some other way? Perhaps with practical experience on contact with BEMs? Probably not, because it's Archer who's making all these first contacts and being taken by surprise there - a MACO force sailing outside Sol would either only tread familiar ground where there are no opponents of educatory sort, or then never return.

    Timo Saloniemi