Discovery Needs To Go Ahead And DO THE THING

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by slappy, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. captainmkb

    captainmkb Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    TNG started losing its "spark" immediately after s3, s4 started to grow bland despite having all the good momentum, s5 was 'event-oriented' meaning there were some superb highs and the rest was filler of low quality. s6 carried on like that -- and by s7 it was a dessicated husk with only a few vital pieces to be gained from it. the strength of the finale and its run-up overshadows the weakest moments but we saw them. the bland pathetic b-stories, unintelligible pseudoscience, etc.
     
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whether it was the 'best season of ENT ever produced' is debatable. I will admit that in my opinion, it was better than the first two years of TNG jr., and the third year of 9-11 allegory. But did we really need three entire episodes about how the Klingons got smooth foreheads, just to stroke Spiner's ego?
     
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  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There are only four season to pick from: the one with the highest ratings and most viewership (S1), the one that actually tried to worldbuild the ENT era and all of its main cast (S2) , the 9/11 & WOT allegory (S3), and the TOS fanservice (S4). YMMV per season.

    Technically, it was a 3-part Augment arc (which Spiner was a part of), and a 2-part Klingon forehead arc (which Spiner was not a part off) that was bookended by an Orion arc if we are trying to be really accurate. I supposed the Klingon forehead arc could be looked as being 3 parts considering how the last episode of the augment arc ends. But those 5 episodes are half a season of Kurtzman era Trek now. It would be good enough for a season of DIS if they wanted a new threat-of-the-season arc.

    And they creaked the door open to explore Augments and bring in Spiner as a Soong ancestor when they acknowledged that Archer’s great-grandad fought in the Eugenics War in the episode were Archer want to be a caretaker for insectoid younglings. Not to mention all of the previous Klingon episodes with not a single smooth forehead Klingon anywhere in sight.
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But the point of those three episodes was to give a reason for the TOS Klingons. All of that other stuff was just plot device for that result.

    Either way, I think we’ve severely gotten off topic, so I’m going to bow out of this discussion now.
     
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  5. Demure Demonstrator

    Demure Demonstrator Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Well said.....
     
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  6. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TBF, they could have used Short Treks for that. And have the Short Trek referenced in Lower Decks later on.
     
  7. Timofnine

    Timofnine Vice Admiral Moderator

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    I have no idea what ‘THE THING’ is in the context of this thread, it just popped up in the recent posts notifications for the Discovery Forum.

    In my mind, ‘THE THING’ can only be one of two things:

    1. The reset button
    2. ‘The Thing’ movie homage, but Enterprise already did that in Regeneration… kinda.
     
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  8. Demure Demonstrator

    Demure Demonstrator Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Janeway stole the reset button from all the other Trek universe......
     
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  9. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Commander Red Shirt

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    Id rather they stay away from explaining too much about Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, etc. Leave that to Picard or a 25th/26th century show
     
  10. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why?
    They don't have to go into intricate details, just show us the general state of affairs.
    In fact, if they want to aim for greater consistency, what they could do is that Disco discovers somethign about a species from 800-900 years ago, but only in part... a foreshadowing of sorts.
    Then Picard or other Trek series that deal with earlier points in history can tap into that.

    What I'd like to see however is some sense of freaking progression. Everything is so too static in the 32nd century for me to care about it... as if, tech/science hasn't changed much at all since then from what I saw (an equivalent of BARELY 50-100 years worth of progress) and its making things BORING for me.
    Make the 32nd century at the forefront of MASSIVE technological leaps for UFP (ones that will actually STICK with the franchise moving forward and change it for the better so it establishes NEW trends and moves away from the old ones - or radically enhance them).
     
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  11. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. Those powers are boring as sin. Let the Federation grow, give brief acknowledgement to some power, and move on with their story, grow the technology, and make new additions to the lore, not revisiting old powers.
     
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  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is the inherent problem with the show. The 'world-building' is set up that no one had found a better alternative for regular warp drive for 800 years, even though there are even shows CBS is producing RIGHT NOW that show that that's not the case. We see some pretty cool new ships and a new space station, but pretty much everything is the same, other than some 'programmable matter' plot device.

    I would rather they just ended the show.
     
  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Pretty much.
    Same old format, with some minor difference.
    The 24th/25th century is the center point for innovation it seems where we see technology moving forward (and possibly in radical ways - it would actually be cool to see that managing to upend Disco's version of the 32nd century completely from the timeline).

    800 freaking years between 24th century and the 32nd and according to Disco, NOTHING ever happened from what we saw and UFP learned from Berman Trek?
    Guess it was easier to just 'wave it all away' under a nonsensical argument.

    That's also an option... as is de-canonizing it or placing it in an alternate timeline (meaning the 32nd century as seen on Disco wouldn't be happening in the prime timeline).
    :D

    Alas, that's not likely to occur.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The thing is, the 'V'Draysh' and the storyline from 'Calypso' presented a completely different futuristic scenario in which the Federation had devolved significantly, were fighting a war against human colonists, and valued relics from the past. This was entirely different than what was shown in season 3. And we know it's supposed to be the same time period, because some guy used the V'draysh term to describe the Federation, although it ended up just being a retcon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  15. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My take on how calypso can be explained is that its set around 4189 of a timeline where the Discovery crew all died in transit with discovery exiting at a different location from the colony. Burnham was unable to contact the Federation and lived out her days as a courier. The Federation in turn allied with the emerald chain and together they evolved into the v'draysh and after a thousand years had conquered most of the alpha quadrant, hence why craft's people were at war with them
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except that doesn't take into account that the term 'V'Draysh' was already being used to describe the Federation in the 32nd century, even though the Federation itself did not use this term.
     
  17. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not sure why "V'Draysh" needs to refer to all of the Federation.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problem is that the person who used the term used it fully knowing what the Federation was, used it in conversation with people who were already using the term ‘Federation’ to refer to the same organization, and he never used it again after that. It’s one thing to use a nickname like ‘the Feds’ to refer to Starfleet, but using such a vastly different syncope to refer to something that already has a familiar name doesn’t make sense. It was clearly meant to just be thrown in as a link to Calypso, but the latter episode strongly implied that ‘V’draysh’ was the prominent term and a bastardization of another term that was no longer in use. DSC season 3 shows something quite otherwise. The term was basically used as a slur, which retcons how the term was used before.
     
  19. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, OK. Well, the term could have twisted over time.
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The more fundamental issue is that the description of the V’draysh in Calypso is completely different from the Federation we see in the 32nd century. The use of the term was just a symptom of a much larger retcon.