Spoilers Discovery, Burnham, & Section 31

[Captain of the USS Averof]

No Section 31 please. Not in Star Trek: Discovery. Not in Star Trek (1)4. Not in Star Trek ever again period.

It was an unimaginative idea to begin with and it’s been done to death since.

I’d prefer to watch space hippie tribbles having a holodeck adventure malfunction in the Mirror Universe.

 

[Gonzo]

Oh, I disagree. I'd rather just have Burnham have had a nervous breakdown than attribute her actions to Section 31.

Oh I don't mean her actions were due to her necessarily being a member of Section 31, just that her actions caught their attention hence why Lorca picked her up.

Section 31 has to recruit just like any other clandestine agency.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

^ Wasn't the death penalty for going to Talos stated as being the only remaining capital crime under Federation law, or am I misremembering? It was always a stupid idea to me to be opposed to the death penalty near universally except in this one case, regardless of the danger.

You are correct. Per Mendez, it's "the only death penalty left on the books". Pretty damn strict, given they would encounter a planet with almost the same kind of illusory and sensory powers an episode or two later in "Shore Leave", and not quarantine it.

 

[BillJ]

You are correct. Per Mendez, it's "the only death penalty left on the books". Pretty damn strict, given they would encounter a planet with almost the same kind of illusory and sensory powers an episode or two later in "Shore Leave", and not quarantine it.

But the difference was that what happened on the "Shore Leave" planet, stayed on the "Shore Leave" planet. The Talosian powers could reach out into deep space.

 

[seigezunt]

I’d prefer to watch space hippie tribbles having a holodeck adventure malfunction in the Mirror Universe.

You say that like that'd be a bad thing. :-D

 

[KirkusOveractus]

But the difference was that what happened on the "Shore Leave" planet, stayed on the "Shore Leave" planet. The Talosian powers could reach out into deep space.

That was another plot hole. If the Talosian powers were so great (indeed, they created the illusion of Mendez going with Kirk in the shuttle as well as transmit their all-color work print of "The Cage" to Enterprise), why only quarantine the planet if they were that powerful? Why just the planet?

And yes, that is where Paramount found the missing color footage. On Talos IV.

 

[Nyotarules]

No Section 31 please. Not in Star Trek: Discovery. Not in Star Trek (1)4. Not in Star Trek ever again period.

It was an unimaginative idea to begin with and it’s been done to death since.

I’d prefer to watch space hippie tribbles having a holodeck adventure malfunction in the Mirror Universe.

As much as I enjoyed the Section 31 novel that I read, the in novelverse that the whole Federation is all being controlled by Windows version 2300 killed the Section 31 vibe for me.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I vote yes. Not because I want it (I don't mind either way), but my current suspicion is that Discovery will not only be a Section 31 ship... I think it will be a Section 31 timeship

 

[Gonzo]

Only if they are a completely new agency that took the name of their Earth Starfleet predecessor (it was also "lucky" that the Earth and Federation Charters both had a similar Section 31; you'd think the Fed Charter would have different pacing and structure from a single planet charter) from Enterprise instead of being a direct continuation of it. Which is entirely possible and probably even more likely than it remaining operational during peacetime without being compromised.

An additional thought although I have already replied to you.

What is Section 31 anyway, could it be a loose organisation of like minded Starfleet Officers, Scientists and maybe Politicians who are for all intents and purposes just like everyone else but when called to action are not as hamstrung by the rules and regulations as most of Starfleet and the Federation is.

Stands to reason those like minded Captains and Admirals would have their own ships and a career structure just like all the others.

I am willing to bet Lorca knows why Burnham did what she did and wont blame her for it.

 

[uniderth]

Section 31 was already in Enterprise.

I think that was exactly Gonzo's point...

Perhaps the actions on the Discovery give rise to Section 31 in the first place.

 

[Gonzo]

I think that was exactly Gonzo's point...

I see what you did there...

I will definitely allow it.

 

[Sarek@Vulcan]

I vote yes. Not because I want it (I don't mind either way), but my current suspicion is that Discovery will not only be a Section 31 ship... I think it will be a Section 31 timeship

What if what we are watching now in Discovery is actually a mirror universe, and when they make mirror universe episode it will be original star trek universe to which Discovery escapes.

 

[Kemaiku]

Section 31 has existed since the Starfleet Charter was signed in the 2130's.

Sorry, since that new novel said Section 31 is a super AI that has controlled the universe since that date.

 

[Timo]

^ Wasn't the death penalty for going to Talos stated as being the only remaining capital crime under Federation law, or am I misremembering?

Not quite. It was a rule applying to Starfleet personnel, but there was nothing to indicate it would also be a Federation law. Starfleet is its own microcosm when it comes to law, just like any military.

And death penalties come and go - one day it's applied on GO7 violations, another day on GO4 violations... Executions aren't exactly going out of fashion in TOS yet, at least not in the military.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[shapeshifter]

These days when I think Section 31 I think NSA.

To me, the creators not using S31 as analogy to the NSA in their story telling would be a missed opportunity for tying into current events.

I am nursing a theory which has the Discovery story-line concluding with some huge outing of S31, it gets dragged into the light in ways which force it to keep a low profile for a while.

 

[jaime]

But wasn't it Georgiou that ordered that specific course of action?

It was something that didn’t sit well with me...to the point I think they fudge it a little by keeping it vague as to whether or not they just stuck it in the tractor beam. It was a very questionable moment, but then...the show is interestingly politically all over the place ‘do not confuse race with culture’ that sort of thing.

Maybe section 31 can explain why they have silly Star Wars holograma that allow people to sit on desks and step on surfaces, especially ages centuries before Ds9 (I am down with having to make things ‘cool’ and not being too beholden to canon..but such a song and dance was made in the Ds9 eps, and it’s such a waste of fx budget when a screen would work better and be in keeping with its borderline ENT / TMP aesthetic...it’s the little things.)

 

[Jayson1]

These days when I think Section 31 I think NSA.

To me, the creators not using S31 as analogy to the NSA in their story telling would be a missed opportunity for tying into current events.

I am nursing a theory which has the Discovery story-line concluding with some huge outing of S31, it gets dragged into the light in ways which force it to keep a low profile for a while.

Wouldn't Starfleet Intelligence be a more apt version of the NSA? I think of Section 31 being more like Haliburton and those private armies that have been used. Only difference is they do covert work instead of being foot soldiers.

Jason

 

[CardassianAssassin]

But wasn't it Georgiou that ordered that specific course of action?

I think it was Burnhams idea, but I could be wrong.

Either way it doesn't really matter, since "I was just following orders" ceased to be an argument after the Nuremberg trials in 1945/46.

 

[BillJ]

I think it was Burnhams idea, but I could be wrong.

It was still Georgiou's order.

Either way it doesn't really matter, since "I was just following orders" ceased to be an argument after the Nuremberg trials in 1945/46.

We don't know what kind of conventions, if any, actually exist between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

 

[Timo]

Either way it doesn't really matter, since "I was just following orders" ceased to be an argument after the Nuremberg trials in 1945/46.

So did "it's legal/illegal", though. Why would Starfleet judge against a winning move when the Allies didn't find fault in theirs?

Timo Saloniemi