They said 'Your'.
News Discovery and Trek Continuity
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Yours with all your Tuvix hybrid stuff.
I don't recognize your creative extension of what I said as being related to my argument. I am not interested in whether they hold up individually or can be forced to fit together via selective discarding, as a practical matter. That's not relevant to the point except insofar as the act of combining them creates a new third continuity (or subsumes the old canon into the EU, if you prefer).
By analogy, I don't care if Tuvix is a functional combination. He could go nuts or have a biochemical failure or whatever. It is the fact he was combined, thus ending Tuvok and Neelix as separate entities, that is the issue.
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To be honest, i don't even recognise what is happening in this thread. Did we work out if the Tuvix novels are canon or not?
They're not. But the Neelok ones are. (I think...)
I'm lost too. I think they're merging the Shatnerverse with the New Picard Series and, together, they're going to go back in time and make the Gold Key Comics part of Official Canon before taking a detour through the Phase II Universe. Xon teams up with Picard to stop Gowron's illegitimate son from destroying the Milky Way.
But the joke's on them because 500 years later, the Kelvans -- from the Andromeda Galaxy -- conquer all. "We conquer! We rule!" Exact quote. We don't have to worry, though, because everything turns out alright in the end. Tuvok and Neelix re-merge to form Tuvix, time-travel into the future, and save the day.
Yup.
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I'd pay real money to watch that...actually, no I wouldn't.
I'd pay real money to watch that...actually, no I wouldn't.
It'll be on All Access, you're fine.
I've long been in the Tuvok/Neelix camp. Tuvix was an accident...
... shit. What have I done?
... shit. What have I done?
It's all right, you speak the truth.
I still don't like Tuvix (excellent portrayal though) and was pleased to see him de-materialised like the transporter accident he really was
At the risk of derailing the thread, I agree. Tuvix was a selfish coward willing to to let two men (and technically a plant) stay dead so he could live. Also he was just a creepy dude.
Damn, I forgot the plant!
Maybe it was just a creepy plant and he was fine otherwise.
Is this the anti-Tuvix thread now because I want in.
It wouldn’t be a third new continuity. It would be the same continuity, just bigger, with more stories in it. Tuvok didn’t eat Neelix then die of food poisoning.
You can't mix two separate stories and call it the same as one of them.
Using Star Wars as an example, A New Hope shows us the journey of Luke to destroy the Death Star, and we see the battle.
In their EU, however, there is a story where a different pilot is present and firing at the exhaust port, believing his weapons to have done the deed.
So, there's a Star Wars universe where Luke fired. There's also a Star Wars universe where the different pilot fired.
If you combine them, you've made a third universe where two people fired at the same time.
Even in Trek this sort of thing happens. In TMP, Kirk lost Cdr. Sonak and a presumed female crewman on the transporter pad. In the books, the woman was his wife.
One can pretend that events play out the same either way, with Kirk hailing the ground station and talking about contacting Sonak's family in professional tone then going on to solve V'Ger.
But, that change to wife changes the meaning and tenor of the story, altering what the audience perceives to be going on in Kirk's head, and so on. The difference between a TMP-only universe and a TMP+books universe is profound, even when a shallow analysis judges it subtle.
That’s absorbing a continuity, I presume?
Anyway, I think everyone here is okay with Neelix being eaten.
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The Star Wars and Trek EUs have ‘elseworlds’ pockets. Then there’s the fact that the older books don’t really have continuity (like the Kirks wife one. And I am not even sure that’s entirely accurate...regardless.) what is at stake is the current actual continuity.
Your Star Wars example changes nothing. ‘Believe to have done the deed’ and ‘done the deed’ are two different things to begin with, they are not in any way contradictory to each other in the first place. There are vast tracts of novels that do not contradict the screen continuity, because that is the foundation they build off. In this case, it’s the current relaunch novels. They are not a separate continuity, because the screen continuity is already part of their continuity....by having the screen recognise the novels continuity, it’s merely the same thing happening in reverse, and is therefore no harder than what the novels do already...I.e use the screen continuity. Monday and Tuesday on screen, Wednesday was a book, Thursday was on screen again. We already see that with the new Disco novels, and other franchises have a mixed media continuity (the matrix was rather good for that, as was B5)
What can happen here is...everything between Nemesis and the new Picard show happened in the books, then the new Picard show becomes the Thursday in my example. (Unless of course they do adapt Destiny. Then it becomes retelling of Wednesday.) It does not transmite into a third continuity, it is simply a continuation of continuity already in place for a number of years.
I am not talking about a full pantheon here...I love Ghost Ship and Children Of Hamlyn, but in those days there was no major attempt at continuity. The current range is very different.
That’s why I don’t get, or don’t agree with, your summation. In the main, there is no contradictions present between the current books and the screen...once the Picard show starts, if it keeps the relaunch novels in place, there will still be no contradictions. So what about that makes it a third continuity?
Nothing. And certainly not a ‘death’ to the two sources used to make it, as in your Tuvix metaphor.
Usually the argument against is ‘too much hard work’ but it’s hard work the novel writers already do. So that’s kind of a nonsense.
I have already established how easy it is for STO to adjust itself to the new approach.
The comics don’t have any ongoing continuity anyway...just one shots and miniseries, some of which are already set inbetween screen adventures anyway, so they can be ignored and launched properly in continuity (going back to Star Wars, their old EU did that sometimes anyway...their new one absolutely did that. And folded in Clone Wars to boot. It’s been done basically.) accordingly (maybe finding some people who can draw along the way. And write.)
There would be no third canon. Just the same one, but with more stories in. Tng didn’t get a new canon and get wiped out in the process when ds9 came along.
All this current posturing and "wordsmithing" over words like continuity and Canon is pointless because, with the exception of the Discovery tie-in novels and their "two-way street" impact on that series and its associated characters, Star Trek tie-in media is not Canon and therefore does not have any effect whatsoever on the continuity of the Star Trek Canon. The only way this changes is if a non-Canon Star Trek thing is referenced in the Canon, and in such cases, such references only effect the Canonical status of the thing being referenced.
Kurtzman disagrees, and does so in his official capacity as Discovery Exec Producer and the proverbial Great Bird of CBS Trek. His long-held opinion that the books and comics are or are to be treated as canon is now the apparent law of the CBS Trek land. I don't see where that's seriously debatable. One can ignore the words or view even a basic attempt to understand them rather than keep on keepin' on as pedantic, but that's not really a debate position.
The question now is "what does that mean?". Clearly, it creates a new united continuity, either different than the two from which it springs or with the former canon conquered by the former non-canon. Given the way Kurtzman describes his view, I view the former as more correct, as he seems aware of creating something new based on the live-action and book elements rather than merely slavishly following the books. Thus, the new one is different.
It's just that simple.
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