Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[marsh8472]

Keep saying that, but like I said, you're not fooling anyone. I put up everything you said, in context, with my highlights bolded and yours underlined. You're the one trying to pull one of your quotes out of context to suggest you said something different than what you clearly did.


I know exactly where Ensign Gates sits on the bridge and where Morn sits in the bar. That doesn't mean they "stick out" and overshadow the main cast.

It's an evolving argument. The wording has been articulated over the last few pages. You misunderstood what I was saying and you have been corrected. But even without correction, I did say "every episode". Your counter-examples are characters in a bunch of episodes but not "every episode". I fail to see what you're trying to accomplish.

Keep saying that, but like I said, you're not fooling anyone. I put up everything you said, in context, with my highlights bolded and yours underlined. You're the one trying to pull one of your quotes out of context to suggest you said something different than what you clearly did.


I know exactly where Ensign Gates sits on the bridge and where Morn sits in the bar. That doesn't mean they "stick out" and overshadow the main cast.

I didn't know where Ensign Gates sat. She's an average looking character who is easy to forget. Morn is not a main character but is in a lot of episodes. They did not ignore him either which is amazing considering he never said a word in the series.

 

[eschaton]

TOS had three major characters and four minor supporting cast who existed to move the plot along. None of them, including Scott, ever held the central role in any episode - and it's kind of stretching the point to give McCoy one or two.

Wolf in the Fold?

 

[BillJ]

Wolf in the Fold?

Scott was part of the MacGuffin for the episode. But we really didn't learn anything about the character.

 

[marsh8472]

I would say Uhura, Scott, Sulu, and Chekov are main characters. If you google around you can see they are referred to as main characters elsewhere. You could call them secondary supporting characters too if you'd like as defined here http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/fall10/kane_amanda/character_types.htm. But however they are classified, Discovery has fewer than the other series.

 

[BillJ]

I would say Uhura, Scott, Sulu, and Chekov are main characters. If you google around you can see they are referred to as main characters elsewhere. But you could call them secondary supporting characters too if you'd like as defined here

I have a hard time even calling them secondary characters. Honestly. I like them, but there wasn't a lot of meat to any of them.

 

[marsh8472]

We could go by this http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Main_characters

TOS: 8 (lasted 3 seasons)
TAS: 7 (lasted 2 seasons)
TNG: 9 (lasted 7 seasons)
DS9: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
VOY: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
ENT: 7 (lasted 4 seasons)
DIS: 6

 

[BillJ]

We could go by this http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Main_characters

TOS: 8 (lasted 3 seasons)
TAS: 7 (lasted 2 seasons)
TNG: 9 (lasted 7 seasons)
DS9: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
VOY: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
ENT: 7 (lasted 4 seasons)
DIS: 6

I simply don't know what you're getting at? Honestly. Discovery also has 15 episodes this season, with two that really weren't part of the main storyline.

This show isn't going to succeed or fail based on the number of characters, but on how compelling those characters are.

 

[Noname Given]

Wolf in the Fold?

Just because one minor character occasionally becomes the plot point; or has a standout scene here and there over 80 episodes - I still wouldn't call said character a main character.

What, did Meyer say something?

I thought he was in a witness protection program.

IDK - maybe he's still working on the 'Khan' replacement series (you know that rumor right - that CBS was sooo disappointed with ST before it aired they weren't going to show it and were going to replace it with this 'Khan' series by Mr. Meyer. -- I guess it ran into pre-production difficulties, but it MUST be coming...right? )

 

[Prax]

Lights of Zetar? Scotty also moved many a b-plot along with grace. "I heard watcha said Mr. Ambassador, but I WILL NOT DROP THE SCREENS!"

When the Kelvins reduced the crew to 9-sided dice, Scotty was kept whole. He was also critical to retaking the ship.

Scott is the man.

 

[marsh8472]

I simply don't know what you're getting at? Honestly. Discovery also has 15 episodes this season, with two that really weren't part of the main storyline.

This show isn't going to succeed or fail based on the number of characters, but on how compelling those characters are.

According to the law of averages having more characters on a series increases the likelihood of having a character that the audience will like either from being attractive, can relate to, funny, interesting, or some other reason. A series can still be good with a few characters but they have to be more larger than life type characters which I'm not seeing yet.

 

[BillJ]

Lights of Zetar?

I'm not sure the "Lights of Zetar" should ever be brought up in any discussion.

 

[BillJ]

According to the law of averages having more characters on a series increases the likelihood of having a character that the audience will like either from being attractive, easy can relate to, funny, interesting, or some other reason. A series can still be good with a few characters but they have to be more larger than life type characters which I'm not seeing yet.

But it also creates less time to focus on each character. So, it still comes down to the writing and how well they take advantage of their actors.

 

[Prax]

I'd even go so far as to argue that Discovery would be much improved with one less main character.

 

[BillJ]

I'd even go so far as to argue that Discovery would be much improved with one less main character.

Starts with an 'M', and ends with an 'm'?

 

[marsh8472]

But it also creates less time to focus on each character. So, it still comes down to the writing and how well they take advantage of their actors.

Fine with me, less focus on those characters would be an improvement

 

[BillJ]

Fine with me, less focus on those characters would be an improvement

I tend to think the writing is weak. But, plopping in more characters isn't going to make the story they're trying to tell any more interesting. They have another few episodes, lets see if they can get their act together.

 

[Mudd]

Wolf in the Fold?

Nah. What's his screen time? Dialogue? He's a featured player there, yeah. It's all about Kirk and Spock solving the problem when everyone else fails, of course.

Maybe "The Lights Of Zetar?"

That's not much to hang "major character" on in three years, is it?

Sulu, Uhura and Chekov got bupkis. A line here and there. Uhura probably got the most scenes of any of them, and that was mainly early on.

 

[Mudd]

We could go by this http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Main_characters

TOS: 8 (lasted 3 seasons)
TAS: 7 (lasted 2 seasons)
TNG: 9 (lasted 7 seasons)
DS9: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
VOY: 10 (lasted 7 seasons)
ENT: 7 (lasted 4 seasons)
DIS: 6

This is meanngless.

This is not entirely a matter of opinion, believe it or not.

Some actors have season-long or multi-year contracts. Some are guaranteed a certain number of episodes a year - they get paid for those whether they're used or not. Some are day players.

Guess which categories most of the TOS actors were in?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Basically what you're saying here, Locutus, is that a person has to be socialized into sports fandom like they're socialized into a religion or a cult.

No, that wasn't really what I was saying. It's certainly one possibility, but it's not the only way.

By way of contrast, the forms of entertainment I am a fan of — science fiction, comics, various TV shows, and so on — were things I discovered on my own. No socialization required.

And the same is entirely possible with sports.

 

[marsh8472]

This is meanngless.

This is not entirely a matter of opinion, believe it or not.

Some actors have season-long or multi-year contracts. Some are guaranteed a certain number of episodes a year - they get paid for those whether they're used or not. Some are day players.

Guess which categories most of the TOS actors were in?

When I say "main characters" I'm including secondary supporting characters too for the sake of arguments over semantics. I have no idea what kind of contracts each of the cast had. Why not post the information you have rather than pose open questions like that?