Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[fireproof78]

Yes, but the MAJOR difference here is that you don't find it necessary to post 15 times a day in an irritating fashion about what you don't like. You aren't hoping to catch the attention of a producer. You aren't hoping it fails.

Like I said in an earlier post....there are fans who show love of the franchise by being SUPPORTIVE in the early growing stages of a show (much respect) and fans who "show their love(?)" by nitpicking the bejusus out of things early on (no respect whatsoever).

I always appreciated this quote when it comes to shows:
"Beware of uncritical lovers and unloving critics."

I don't think DISCO is the best evah! It has problems, with Lorca's behavior being chief among my complaints. But, I also think it is still going through growing pains and will improve over time.

 

[Vger23]

I always appreciated this quote when it comes to shows:
"Beware of uncritical lovers and unloving critics."

I don't think DISCO is the best evah! It has problems, with Lorca's behavior being chief among my complaints. But, I also think it is still going through growing pains and will improve over time.

DSC and ORV both have their problems. That said, with the (always) exception of TOS...I think both series are off to a much stronger start than any other Trek series has been. That in itself, when looked at relatively, is cause for much optimism!

 

[ichab]

Would it though? The Abrams films all rate in the 80+ percent range.

Voyager (with probably a limited sample) is a tick under 70 percent.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_voyager

Enterprise is a tick under 75 percent.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_enterprise

Voyager and Enterprise were panned way worse in their first run than Discovery is now. I know because remember the vitriol quite well. If rottentomatoes had been around in the ninieties you would have seen percentages way worse. Those 70 percent ratings came long after the shows left the air and people are looking back. Those really aren't valid comparisons.

 

[Tesophius]

Decided to throw in ENT there for comparison purposes. The scale is 1-10.

 

[fireproof78]

This data feels rather meaningless, since it lacks context, sources or any meaningful way to draw comparisons.

 

[Tesophius]

The x-axis is just the episode number. The y-axis is an objective quality assessment on a scale of 1 to 10.

 

[fireproof78]

The x-axis is just the episode number. The y-axis is an objective quality assessment on a scale of 1 to 10.

Based upon what data? What are the objective standards? Who made the ratings? How large of a population draw?

Again, it's non-contextual and so far is meaningless and arbitrary.

 

[ozzfloyd]

"Objective". Lol

 

[fireproof78]

"Objective". Lol

Indeed

 

[The Habs Fan]

Decided to throw in ENT there for comparison purposes. The scale is 1-10.

So you made a chart comparing your own ratings? Nice proof there.

Maybe go to rotten tomatoes and see their list of “most popular TV on Rotten Tomatoes”. Number 3 right now is Star Trek Discovery (after Stranger Things and Mindhunter). The Orville is barely on the list at 12. That list better illustrates audience interest.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean the greater majority agree with you.

 

[Tesophius]

Based upon what data? What are the objective standards? Who made the ratings? How large of a population draw?

Again, it's non-contextual and so far is meaningless and arbitrary.

I composed the data myself based on my objective assessments. I factored in the A and B storylines, with the more entertaining story having a bigger impact on the overall ranking. I really don't see how this is anything but fair.

 

[Roald]

I composed the data myself based on my objective assessments. I factored in the A and B storylines, with the more entertaining story having a bigger impact on the overall ranking. I really don't see how this is anything but fair.

You do know what objective means, do you?

 

[Prax]

Decided to throw in ENT there for comparison purposes. The scale is 1-10.

Is the 9 point Enterprise one the episode where Trip gets pregnant?

 

[Tesophius]

Is the 9 point Enterprise one the episode where Trip gets pregnant?

it's an 8, but yes.

 

[Roald]

People had to pay to access it. So I'm not sure I'm seeing much of a difference?

You think handing out zero or one star ratings because they don't agree with having to get another subscription while the rest of the world gets Netflix is a fair way to rate a series? Do not underestimate how many people did this.

I really think people are trying to use this as some kind of crutch to explain lackluster viewer reaction to the show. But, lets be honest here, Axanar was a fan film with a very limited reach as far the general populace goes.

You're right, but the 'general public' do not hand out ratings en masse on sites like RT, IMDB etc. Most people I know have never, ever rated a film or series on the internet. The Axanar camp were/are determined to bury DSC (don't underestimate this as well): I believe they were rallied up to give as much zero star ratings they could. Of course it's a relatively small group, but looking at the total of people who actually rated the show on RT, I wouldn't surprised if the 'Axanar-camp' represents a significant percentage.

Game of Thrones

ratings don't seem to be affected by those attitudes. Another lets be honest here: much like Beyond, the gay scenes are pretty blink and you miss it for the most part. Outside of the scene between Burnham and Stamets in the last episode.

GOT is not 'the show with the black female as a lead', DSC is. Believe me, for a large number of Americans, this is an issue. Remember the shit The Force Awakens had to take because of the Finn character? It's horrible. It IS a thing in the US...

 

[Tesophius]

You do know what objective means, do you?

My rankings speak for themselves in this regard.

 

[The Habs Fan]

My rankings speak for themselves in this regard.

This thread has officially jumped the shark

 

[BillJ]

Maybe go to rotten tomatoes and see their list of “most popular TV on Rotten Tomatoes”. Number 3 right now is Star Trek Discovery (after Stranger Things and Mindhunter). The Orville is barely on the list at 12. That list better illustrates audience interest.

Aren't those critics ratings? Because right now The Orville ranks higher in audience scores. But, looking, the way they are listed seems arbitrary as several shows with better ratings rank below Discovery, including Mr. Robot.

 

[Cake]

We could also compare the IMDb ratings. More people have voted there than on Rotten Tomatoes and they use a weighted average. That makes an individual negative vote less influential.

IMDb publishes weighted vote averages rather than raw data averages. Various filters are applied to the raw data in order to eliminate and reduce attempts at vote stuffing by people more interested in changing the current rating of a movie than giving their true opinion of it.

The exact methods we use will not be disclosed. This should ensure that the policy remains effective. The result is a more accurate vote average.

TOS: 8.4 - 58,626 votes
TAS: 7.6 - 4,515 votes
TNG: 8.6 - 74,641 votes
DS9: 7.9 - 38,473 votes
VOY: 7.7 - 44,215 votes
ENT: 7.5 - 34,253 votes
DIS: 7.3 - 25,275 votes
Orv: 7.8 - 17,313 votes

You can also find here a big list of scifi series. Most series range between 6.0 and 9.0. So to simplify it an 8 rating is really good, 7 average and 6 bad. Decimals matter of course. Getting a 7.9 is much harder than getting a 7.0.

 

[Greg Cox]

My rankings speak for themselves in this regard.

So your rankings are "objective," but other people's reviews are "clearly biased and possibly corrupted."

Got it.